| [10:07:46] | <mstenta[m]> | paul121 Confirmed that both circular location/group constraints need to check for this "edge case" |
| [10:08:24] | <mstenta[m]> | I will update the group PR to include it (and test) before merging |
| [10:08:24] | <mstenta[m]> | As for the location one (which has already been merged), I suppose I'll just open a follow-up PR for it |
| [10:46:43] | <mstenta[m]> | https://github.com/farmOS/farmOS/pull/623 |
| [12:48:36] | <mstenta[m]> | Alright! We're looking good on the 2.0.0 front! |
| [12:49:07] | <mstenta[m]> | Still not sure how to proceed on the CSV one... 🤔 |
| [12:49:46] | <mstenta[m]> | I might try to take another pass at https://github.com/farmOS/farmOS/pull/583 too... although I am also OK with doing that post-2.0.0 if time runs out |
| [12:51:16] | <paul121[m]> | mstenta[m]: I like your idea for the new view mode! |
| [12:51:34] | <mstenta[m]> | Mmm yea, I suppose... |
| [12:52:06] | <mstenta[m]> | It probably means we'll need to override the Views field config for the csv display, yea? |
| [12:52:20] | <mstenta[m]> | Or maybe we can just alter that specific configuration via a hook? |
| [12:52:35] | <mstenta[m]> | (just change the view mode in the csv display context i mean) |
| [12:53:05] | <paul121[m]> | but more generally are we just pushing the limits of csv export in views? iirc it doesn't work well for our other "views of logs" (assigned logs etc) |
| [12:54:04] | <mstenta[m]> | yea it's a good question - although i'm not familiar with an issue with "assigned logs" |
| [12:56:03] | <mstenta[m]> | paul121: alright, well re: this week and next week - i'm figuring that in order to get your eyes on stuff before 2.0.0 it pretty much needs to be ready for review by tomorrow |
| [12:56:40] | <mstenta[m]> | i have some other stuff to do too, so maybe i'll just focus on the CSV one, and if I can squeeze #583 in as well then I'll try to |
| [13:13:29] | <paul121[m]> | <mstenta[m]> "yea it's a good question..." <- mm yeah. the "assigned logs" doesn't have a CSV export button. I think we had it on all log views, but it was only compatible with the basic log views |
| [13:13:29] | <paul121[m]> | "Only show "Export CSV" link on "All" and "By type" quantity displays.": https://github.com/farmOS/farmOS/commit/7b65b7d8c00a96732cca751e7806ef47... |
| [13:15:00] | <mstenta[m]> | aaah ok yea |
| [13:15:43] | <paul121[m]> | <mstenta[m]> "paul121: alright, well re..." <- more or less! I'll be around the 28-30 too |
| [13:16:15] | <mstenta[m]> | OK well I won't expect anything after this week :-) |
| [13:17:04] | <paul121[m]> | maybe more info here... but not important: https://www.drupal.org/project/farm/issues/3224663 |
| [13:19:14] | * ludwa6[m] has joined #farmos |
| [13:19:14] | <ludwa6[m]> | Quick question re Quick Forms: is there one for Harvest logs? or only for Plantings? |
| [13:19:40] | <mstenta[m]> | no harvest quick form (yet) |
| [13:19:47] | <mstenta[m]> | that's one i want too |
| [13:20:16] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: ah -but there was one back on version 1.x, am i right? |
| [13:20:44] | <mstenta[m]> | no, i don't think we ever had a harvest quick form (unless i'm forgetting!) |
| [13:20:57] | <mstenta[m]> | the Planting quick form DOES have an option to create a harvest log |
| [13:21:01] | <mstenta[m]> | maybe that's what you're thinking? |
| [13:21:13] | <mstenta[m]> | it's not really useful for multi-harvest crops tho |
| [13:22:20] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: ah, that could be why i had this idea. But yeah: we're looking for a way to enter a single harvest event of multiple crops from our market garden. |
| [13:24:06] | <ludwa6[m]> | This .CSV upload process has been serving us well for over a year now... But i've finally got my Market Gardener thinking seriously about inputting both Plantings and Harvests directly in farmOS. |
| [13:25:11] | <mstenta[m]> | oh that's great news ludwa6 ! |
| [13:25:21] | <mstenta[m]> | (that they are warming up to directly using farmOS) |
| [13:25:52] | <mstenta[m]> | a harvest quick form would probably be pretty simple |
| [13:26:16] | <mstenta[m]> | i'm imagining just a few basic fields: Date, Asset(s), Quantity, Notes |
| [13:26:52] | <mstenta[m]> | Although probably want the "quantity" to be multi-value, so you could use one form to make a list of things that were harvested perhaps |
| [13:26:55] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: Yes: we're going through a bit of reorg, brought a new guy onto the team who convinced his boss in OMG (Organic Market Garden :-) to look into this... So i think it may well happen. |
| [13:27:02] | <mstenta[m]> | (Makes me think about relationships to "packing list" ideas too) |
| [13:28:24] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: Right - it would have to be. That is the idea: just one form, into which there are usually some dozens of crops harvested... All denominated in kilos, as a rule. |
| [13:29:27] | <mstenta[m]> | And I imagine it might need to be able to handle cases where you DON'T have a Plant asset too |
| [13:29:41] | <mstenta[m]> | still useful to be able to create a harvest log to record, even without asset relationship |
| [13:30:16] | <ludwa6[m]> | I mean: each product harvested will of course have its own value, but the units are all kilos. But these will all be assets that exist, as a rule. |
| [13:31:46] | <ludwa6[m]> | One question we stumble on today is: when we set up the asset, it looks like Location is mandatory... but then Location can change in fact. Can we later edit a Plant asset to change its location? |
| [13:31:47] | <mstenta[m]> | location isn't mandatory |
| [13:32:05] | <mstenta[m]> | Oh... do you mean in the quick form? |
| [13:32:10] | <ludwa6[m]> | It is on the Planting quick form; has a red asterisk. Are we looking at the same/ |
| [13:32:22] | <mstenta[m]> | ah gotcha yeaaa |
| [13:32:26] | <mstenta[m]> | location in general isn't mandatory :-) |
| [13:32:54] | <mstenta[m]> | but yes, to answer your question: location can be changed later |
| [13:32:56] | <mstenta[m]> | i suppose we could consider making location optional |
| [13:33:01] | <mstenta[m]> | in the quick form i mean |
| [13:33:05] | <ludwa6[m]> | See: We've got a crop plan for one full year ahead, in terms of the WHAT (plant type) and WHEN (estimated date of seeding/ transplant/ harvest) |
| [13:33:36] | <mstenta[m]> | thing is... the planting quick form creates seeding and/or transplanting logs... and THAT is ideally where the location gets recorded |
| [13:33:43] | <ludwa6[m]> | But Location is something that gets nailed down later, in terms of the exact bed where it gets transplanted in. |
| [13:33:50] | <mstenta[m]> | so ideally you'd go back in and edit those logs to add the location later |
| [13:34:12] | <mstenta[m]> | (these all sound like good considerations for the v2 crop PLAN module) |
| [13:34:47] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: Is that a thing in the works already? |
| [13:35:01] | <mstenta[m]> | just ideas |
| [13:35:27] | <mstenta[m]> | well i did start a few commits: https://github.com/mstenta/farm_crop_plan/tree/2.x |
| [13:35:31] | <mstenta[m]> | but it doesn't do anything yet |
| [13:36:22] | <mstenta[m]> | there's a nitty gritty data architecture question to figure out for plans more generally that has prevented much work on it |
| [13:36:39] | <mstenta[m]> | (or at least prevented me from diving in in my free time) |
| [13:37:16] | <mstenta[m]> | https://www.drupal.org/project/farm/issues/3187877 |
| [13:37:19] | <mstenta[m]> | (quite nitty gritty0 |
| [13:45:46] | <ludwa6[m]> | <mstenta[m]> "there's a nitty gritty data..." <- Yes: browsing that thread, i see how complex it can be- and probably should, to deliver desired functionality in an elegant way. |
| [13:46:10] | <mstenta[m]> | I just added another comment :-) |
| [13:46:48] | <ludwa6[m]> | I just wonder if there might not be a simpler way that could be "Safe enough to try/ good enough for now," as we so often say around this farm :-) |
| [13:48:53] | <mstenta[m]> | Perhaps! Either way we don't have dedicated funding for the crop plan modules unfortunately :-( |
| [13:48:57] | <mstenta[m]> | Although perhaps we can make a case for it under some of the USDA funding that will be coming in to OpenTEAM and PASA in the near future! |
| [13:48:57] | <ludwa6[m]> | Have you got a budget estimate for development? |
| [13:49:22] | <mstenta[m]> | No |
| [13:49:34] | <mstenta[m]> | We could probably estimate one if the goal was "replicate exactly what v1 had" |
| [13:49:50] | <mstenta[m]> | But I think there are genuine questions about whether or not the v1 crop plan module was the "right" design too |
| [13:50:39] | <mstenta[m]> | I think the ideal thing would be to have funding to do a dedicated design / speccing process with the larger community |
| [13:50:46] | <mstenta[m]> | With an outcome of requirements, which could then be used to estimate work |
| [13:51:29] | <mstenta[m]> | In comparison, implementing the thing I describe in my last comment in https://www.drupal.org/project/farm/issues/3187877 is pretty small |
| [13:52:45] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: Sounds like the process you mentioned in https://farmos.discourse.group/t/project-wishlist/1443/16 |
| [13:52:55] | <mstenta[m]> | Exactly |
| [13:53:09] | <mstenta[m]> | Lots of these "big features" we talk about would benefit greatly from a more formal process like that |
| [13:53:39] | <mstenta[m]> | And the crop plan module could produce a number of the "reusable planning components" I mentioned in that thread |
| [13:53:51] | <mstenta[m]> | So maybe the ideal approach would be to try to spec TWO plan types in parallel |
| [13:54:00] | <mstenta[m]> | crop plan + general project plan |
| [13:54:09] | <mstenta[m]> | I know there are some who are interested in a grazing plan too |
| [13:54:22] | <mstenta[m]> | Then we could compare/contrast and find where there are overlaps in requirements/ideas |
| [13:54:53] | <ludwa6[m]> | +1 on that approach! |
| [13:55:20] | <ludwa6[m]> | So what's involved in making that happen? |
| [13:55:41] | <mstenta[m]> | time mostly |
| [13:55:53] | <mstenta[m]> | the most limited resource :-) |
| [13:56:27] | <mstenta[m]> | if i can make the case for this under the USDA funds, we could potentially hire someone to shepherd it |
| [13:56:40] | <mstenta[m]> | as well as people to help develop it |
| [13:57:11] | <mstenta[m]> | otherwise it's volunteer basis |
| [13:57:13] | <ludwa6[m]> | Well: this OpenTEAM HCD process: is it agile? something like a weekend sprint? |
| [13:57:50] | <mstenta[m]> | i think for something like this we'd want at least a few meetings, with as many stakeholders as we can gather |
| [13:57:58] | <mstenta[m]> | spend a few just talking about what's needed |
| [13:58:10] | <mstenta[m]> | then some time in between to put together mockups/ideas/solutions |
| [13:58:20] | <mstenta[m]> | then some more gatherings to show/discuss/refine those |
| [13:59:26] | <mstenta[m]> | with the crop plan one, we can show what we had in v1, discuss the good/bad of it... and looking at other existing options would be really helpful too |
| [14:00:01] | <mstenta[m]> | i almost feel like we'd need a few "sets" of stakeholders too - which we meet with separately... small diversified operations, big row-crop operations, etc |
| [14:00:12] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: wish i could remember very well what that was like. Have you got a v1.x instance online somewhere, so i could refresh my memory? |
| [14:00:15] | <mstenta[m]> | and then compare/contrast what comes out of each |
| [14:01:50] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: As this need is very top-of-mind w/ my team now, i'd be happy to work on the UseCase of a row crop market garden operation |
| [14:02:27] | <mstenta[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: (555KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/WZadeaAJCYJ... > |
| [14:04:04] | <mstenta[m]> | Here is the other way of viewing it (notice the "Display options"... "by planting" vs "by area"): |
| [14:04:11] | <mstenta[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: (661KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/HPneFCThXOL... > |
| [14:04:48] | <mstenta[m]> | everything looks terrible to me in v1 now haha - but the concepts were pretty sound I think |
| [14:05:12] | <mstenta[m]> | and we really didn't have the chance to go deeper with it... had a lot of ideas for next steps |
| [14:05:24] | <mstenta[m]> | https://github.com/mstenta/farm_crop_plan/issues |
| [14:05:50] | <mstenta[m]> | we did the first pass on a pretty shoestring budget |
| [14:06:01] | <mstenta[m]> | so it is VERY "mvp" |
| [14:06:17] | <mstenta[m]> | more of a proof of concept, really |
| [14:10:37] | <mstenta[m]> | if I had my druthers I would hire a CSS wizard too 😄🧙 |
| [14:12:54] | <paul121[m]> | <mstenta[m]> "So maybe the ideal approach..." <- how realistic is openteam HCD getting involved? I'm just not optimistic.... it has been slow going.... |
| [14:13:54] | <mstenta[m]> | i think it might be possible if we made a strong case for a sustained effort |
| [14:14:18] | <mstenta[m]> | but it would require someone to guide the process - I'd love to have Ankita do it but she might be busy |
| [14:15:19] | <mstenta[m]> | still - i don't see it being a high priority in 2023, unfortunately |
| [14:15:52] | <mstenta[m]> | they are just getting their feet under them with these big grants |
| [14:15:53] | <paul121[m]> | it totally makes sense for Crop plan, but for project plan it just feels like that's too much effort |
| [14:15:53] | <mstenta[m]> | yea agreed |
| [14:16:16] | <paul121[m]> | I think a project plan just needs simple metadata as various outlined the forum post... not really a part of conversation for the larger "farm data model" IMO |
| [14:16:24] | <paul121[m]> | just like "I need to do this thing" lol |
| [14:16:26] | <ludwa6[m]> | Need for a planning module is something i think anyone in the business of farming would be very interested in, so... the case for sustained effort should be pretty easy to make, seems to me. |
| [14:16:36] | <paul121[m]> | fwiw I hope to polish my module over the holidays :-) |
| [14:18:47] | <ludwa6[m]> | I'd love to give Paul's module a whirl, soon as it shows up in Farmier. As i said in that thread: crop planning is one thing, but we've got all sorts of projects on the farm that should be put into our farmOS database, however high-level the data model may be. |
| [14:19:20] | <ludwa6[m]> | Starting w/ the compost test we are planning right now! |
| [14:19:58] | <mstenta[m]> | Yea! Happy to drop the module in for you to test ludwa6 ! |
| [14:20:18] | <mstenta[m]> | It sounds like the main problem it will solve is "grouping logs" under the umbrella of a "Project" plan |
| [14:20:37] | <mstenta[m]> | (correct me if I'm wrong paul121 ) |
| [14:20:47] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: that's a big win right there |
| [14:22:51] | <ludwa6[m]> | mstenta[m]: If we could group the Planting logs, the harvest logs, and some observations logs (w/ photos) on the test & control beds, all in the context of one Project Plan, that solves a real need. |
| [14:24:01] | <ludwa6[m]> | No sensor data involved in this particular test. Does involve compost inputs, so i guess that's another type of log (haven't used those yet, but for this one i guess we will) |
| [14:26:38] | <FarmerEd[m]> | Are you collecting much data with sensors ludwa6: ? |
| [14:26:39] | <paul121[m]> | <mstenta[m]> "It sounds like the main problem..." <- yeah. and just having a place to add metadata (notes, due date, files, etc) about a project seems useful. before logs are even created |
| [14:26:40] | <paul121[m]> | gotta run for a bit! ttyl |
| [14:27:14] | <ludwa6[m]> | FarmerEd[m]: not any more. Had a big sensor test going pre-covid, but never got around to setting it up in farmOS, except for sensor, just to test. |
| [14:28:44] | <ludwa6[m]> | but i read your post about Ruuvi sensors w/ real interest, Farmer Ed |
| [14:30:34] | <ludwa6[m]> | Sounds like sensor tech has come a long way in last few years; could be near time to rekindle our old dream of a Smart Greenhouse |
| [14:33:31] | <FarmerEd[m]> | 😁still early days with them, just bouncing ideas at the moment. |
| [14:33:31] | <FarmerEd[m]> | Not full decided on how much they'll be integrated with farmOS. |
| [14:36:48] | <FarmerEd[m]> | Sensors are definitely getting more accessible in general. I also have a small smart greenhouse project going on with some LoRa sensors built with Arduinos. |
| [14:37:07] | <FarmerEd[m]> | * 😁still early days with them, just bouncing ideas with postmanp at: at the moment. |
| [14:37:07] | <FarmerEd[m]> | Not fully decided on how much they'll be integrated with farmOS. |
| [14:38:13] | <ludwa6[m]> | > <@farmer-ed:matrix.org> 😁still early days with them, just bouncing ideas with postmanp at: at the moment. |
| [14:38:13] | <ludwa6[m]> | > Not fully decided on how much they'll be integrated with farmOS. |
| [14:38:13] | <ludwa6[m]> | good to know. On this one, i'll bide my time and stay off the bleeding edge for now -but will be following progress from the armchair. Thanks for the update, Farmer Ed ! |
| [14:38:13] | <ludwa6[m]> | ACTION eats |
| [14:38:13] | <ludwa6[m]> | gotta go assist w/ dinner, so -ciao for now! |
| [14:39:39] | <FarmerEd[m]> | 👍 |
