| [21:19:11] | <tamtran94[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: (888KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/LhrxHKjthaOMJgTS... > |
| [21:23:31] | <tamtran94[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: (1951KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/LmXfJKJfQTLYmDWi... > |
| [21:23:42] | <tamtran94[m]> | Hello Mr. symbioquine... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/qGlUgluOlnUnKIvy...) |
| [21:24:23] | <tamtran94[m]> | * Hello Mr. symbioquine... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/GvuloJMclqThArwy...) |
| [21:25:19] | <tamtran94[m]> | * Hello Mr. symbioquine... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/ebbaCdhAPEVXSxxq...) |
| [21:28:22] | <tamtran94[m]> | * Hello Mr. symbioquine... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/rZgQuSTEsXqWwacO...) |
| [21:30:06] | <tamtran94[m]> | * Hello Mr. symbioquine... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/nYzmrTaenHtrmjKf...) |
| [21:30:33] | <tamtran94[m]> | * Hello Mr. symbioquine... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/BGfTVVvOBQBHuqKm...) |
| [21:37:15] | <tamtran94[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: (888KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/hyyCGSNCwLImEjkd... > |
| [21:37:17] | <tamtran94[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: (1951KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/PgySmWsiZGWtFyzA... > |
| [22:03:26] | <tamtran94[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: (691KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/FXKYvosZfJgSCRiH... > |
| [22:03:40] | <tamtran94[m]> | Almost! 😅 |
| [22:03:40] | <tamtran94[m]> | sleep well team! |
| [22:18:13] | <tamtran94[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: (1109KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/dDeNgXtSkqwjmZqj... > |
| [22:18:54] | <tamtran94[m]> | finished! |
| [22:18:54] | <tamtran94[m]> | I'll test functions and experience new GUI before ping to manager 😅. |
| [22:18:54] | <tamtran94[m]> | Thanks & sorry for boring at your night time |
| [22:26:52] | <tamtran94[m]> | * finished! |
| [22:26:52] | <tamtran94[m]> | I'll test functions and experience new GUI and install some relevant module for fun. |
| [22:26:52] | <tamtran94[m]> | Thanks & sorry for boring at your night time |
| [22:52:04] | <tamtran94[m]> | * finished!... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/KrNcwqGETgglNSAM...) |
| [07:44:56] | <mstenta[m]> | Glad you got it working tamtran94 ! |
| [07:45:08] | <mstenta[m]> | FYI there is no official Android app for farmOS |
| [07:45:19] | <mstenta[m]> | But farmOS works pretty well by itself on mobile devices |
| [07:45:27] | <mstenta[m]> | It just requires an internet connection |
| [08:57:08] | <tamtran94[m]> | <mstenta[m]> "FYI there is no official Android..." <- 🤔 when will your team develop it, do you think Mr. mstenta ! |
| [08:57:08] | <tamtran94[m]> | I saw my co-worker dev FE but he was also dev mobile version base on a framework like IONIC framework (or other one use other framework) base on his interest and client architecture. |
| [08:57:08] | <tamtran94[m]> | For example Solocal - France CRM do it pretty good, for the future and even real work everyday, modern Farmer/Agronomist who work everyday on farm collect data in real time and update it. |
| [09:02:18] | <tamtran94[m]> | You know that not every farm in an urban area, most of it even in a rural area with limited GPS signal, for example: |
| [09:02:18] | <tamtran94[m]> | with a small farmer like ASIA culture, we don't have much land to cultivate vegetable, fruit trees, crow cattle breeds, etc. and so for the one who aim to make agriculture business focus and little lucky, have to move out side of farmer-families own by each family in a social. |
| [09:06:43] | <tamtran94[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: (3729KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/mmReLpwyiEgKZQHc... > |
| [09:06:56] | <mstenta[m]> | We did have an Android/iOS app for farmOS v1 |
| [09:07:17] | <mstenta[m]> | It was basically a Cordova wrapper around Field Kit |
| [09:08:19] | <mstenta[m]> | Cordova is (was?) an open source library that creates native apps for Android and iOS from a progressive web app (JavaScript) |
| [09:09:31] | <mstenta[m]> | Field Kit is a progressive web app, which uses JS + service workers to support offline data entry |
| [09:09:58] | <mstenta[m]> | It is still in the process of being developed for farmOS v3 though |
| [09:10:18] | <mstenta[m]> | But years ago we decided to abandon the native apps, for various reasons |
| [09:10:37] | <mstenta[m]> | Basically, it is not worth our very limited time and resources to maintain them |
| [09:11:10] | <mstenta[m]> | When a PWA can solve the same problem of offline use |
| [09:11:51] | <mstenta[m]> | You might also check out Asset Link, which is another example of a PWA for farmOS |
| [09:12:33] | <mstenta[m]> | https://farmos.org/blog/2023/introducing-asset-link-contrib-module-video/ |
| [09:16:56] | <mstenta[m]> | In summary, I agree tamtran94 I want to see more offline options for farmOS! If you have skills and resources to contribute to the effort we would welcome them! |
| [09:27:54] | <tamtran94[m]> | Let me test first in a mean time for experience farmOS web app. I can see the potential, but like start up company/an idea. We all have a limit about resource - time, hr (esp. in IT field). Many talent dev focus on make money more than stay with their talent I know. And even if they agree to participate open source community, it's tough for them to nurturing their live and their family. |
| [09:29:57] | <tamtran94[m]> | * Let me test first in a mean time for experience farmOS web app. I can see the potential, but like a start up company/an idea. We all have a limit about resource - time, hr (esp. in IT field), budget. |
| [09:29:57] | <tamtran94[m]> | Many talent dev focus on make money more than stay with chasing their talent with one product in my experience 10 years ago. |
| [09:29:57] | <tamtran94[m]> | And even if they agree to participate open source community, it's tough for them to nurturing their live and their family. |
| [09:30:21] | <tamtran94[m]> | * Let me test first in a mean time for experience farmOS web app. I can see the potential, but like a start up company/an idea. We all have a limit about resource - time, hr (esp. in IT field), budget. |
| [09:30:21] | <tamtran94[m]> | Many talent dev focus on make money more than stay with chasing their talent with one product in my experience nearly 10 years ago. |
| [09:30:21] | <tamtran94[m]> | And even if they agree to participate open source community, it's tough for them to nurturing their live and their family. |
| [09:32:04] | <tamtran94[m]> | <mstenta[m]> "In summary, I agree tamtran94..." <- or we can wait for StarLink come here 😅 |
| [09:33:22] | <tamtran94[m]> | Just kidding, our government not yet approve for StarLink do their business above Vietnam zone. |
| [09:33:49] | <tamtran94[m]> | on our neighbor countries: Laos and Cambodia 2025, maybe |
| [09:35:21] | <tamtran94[m]> | but not Vietnam. Security and cybersecurity/protect internal business (telecom companies) ... better I might keep it for our private info. |
| [09:39:56] | <tamtran94[m]> | BTW, my friend/classmate dev better than me. Especially web/app/tool, even crawler 😅 |
| [09:39:57] | <tamtran94[m]> | So, if the company strategy using open source for digital transform priority. We may have a resource to contribute, but that's idealism. |
| [09:39:57] | <tamtran94[m]> | In fact, the organization who make a bond with farmOS, or they attract enough IT talent guys come with, might self-developing farmOS continue with limit-currently. |
| [09:41:36] | <tamtran94[m]> | And first thing first, never forget principle on SDLC: |
| [09:41:36] | <tamtran94[m]> | the needs -> survey -> pinpoint -> analyst -> design -> dev -> test -> release publish. |
| [09:42:50] | <tamtran94[m]> | Many product die when it roll out as client disappoint with it function at the end of life cycle -> build and deliver. |
| [09:42:50] | <tamtran94[m]> | Scrum methodology/Waterfall improve might fix it. |
| [09:48:01] | <tamtran94[m]> | s/In fact, the organization who make a bond with farmOS, or they attract enough IT talent guys come with, might self-developing farmOS continue with limit-currently./In fact, those organizations who made bond with farmOS, or company who attract enough IT talent guys come with, might actively developing farmOS continue with what things limited currently. / |
| [09:50:04] | <tamtran94[m]> | * And first thing first, never forget principle on SDLC: |
| [09:50:04] | <tamtran94[m]> | the needs/problems/issues/trouble -> survey -> determine pain-points -> analyst idea solutions -> product design -> build (dev) -> test -> release publish. |
| [09:50:39] | <mstenta[m]> | Yes there are always challenges with open source projects |
| [09:50:50] | <mstenta[m]> | I try to think of the long term |
| [09:50:57] | <mstenta[m]> | And accept that there is always more to do! |
| [09:51:04] | <mstenta[m]> | "Slow and steady wins the race" :-) |
| [09:51:28] | <symbioquine[m]> | mstenta[m]: Who says 😝 |
| [09:51:31] | <tamtran94[m]> | * Many products die when it roll out as client disappoint with it functions at the end of life cycle -> build and deliver (Waterfall method) |
| [09:51:31] | <tamtran94[m]> | Today, Scrum methodology/Waterfall improve might fix it. |
| [09:57:06] | <tamtran94[m]> | <mstenta[m]> ""Slow and steady wins the race"..." <- Not sure, if the Facebook slowly enough for other platform expand. Or if Mark Zuckerberg only focus on Harvard local clients/student network instead of expand to other objects/client, they're not like they're today. |
| [09:57:06] | <tamtran94[m]> | (Apply for Bill Gates with his Windows dominate general market, too) |
| [10:02:33] | <mstenta[m]> | Linux is winning the race against Windows on all devices except desktop (servers, mobile, etc). And on the desktop front Mac OS X (based on BSD) has taken a lot of the Windows market. |
| [10:03:25] | <tamtran94[m]> | P/s: in 10 years ago, Uber died on ASIA (or at least ASEAN) market when they expand. |
| [10:07:12] | <mstenta[m]> | I'd like to see more worker-organized ride share options |
| [10:07:46] | <mstenta[m]> | Uber was first to market, but it seems inevitable that they will give way to things like that |
| [10:09:29] | <symbioquine[m]> | In theory there could be open source software that makes it easy to spin up federated "driver-for hire" co-ops that pool their resources to handle billing and driver/rider reputation management. |
| [10:10:30] | <symbioquine[m]> | "easy" that is 🧐 |
| [10:10:43] | <mstenta[m]> | That's the beauty of open source... people start to realize "wait, we don't need to give all our money to shareholders. we can do this ourself! we have the tools!" |
| [10:11:22] | <mstenta[m]> | > Yes there are always challenges with open source projects |
| [10:11:22] | <mstenta[m]> | 😄 |
| [10:12:32] | <tamtran94[m]> | Look like software socialism! |
| [10:13:26] | <mstenta[m]> | Code is not a scarce resource. There is no sense in pretending that it is. |
| [10:13:57] | <mstenta[m]> | (once it is written) |
| [10:15:37] | <tamtran94[m]> | 🤔 can I ask a stupid question at here, mr. mstenta ? |
| [10:15:58] | <tamtran94[m]> | About competitive of farmOS, for example |
| [10:16:14] | <mstenta[m]> | no question is stupid tamtran94 :-) |
| [10:16:21] | <tamtran94[m]> | https://exactfarming.com/en |
| [10:16:35] | <tamtran94[m]> | are you scare Russia product (close source) |
| [10:16:40] | <tamtran94[m]> | 😅 |
| [10:17:36] | <mstenta[m]> | I'm not scared of any of the thousands of other farm management software options |
| [10:17:43] | <mstenta[m]> | I'm focused on building farmOS because it's what I want |
| [10:18:07] | <mstenta[m]> | If others want it too... great! |
| [10:24:21] | <symbioquine[m]> | There's a duality here. On one hand the set of folks to whom precision ag startups appeal, probably aren't good farmOS "early adopters". On the other hand, there is an aspect of needing to grow fast enough (at least in mind-share) to not become irrelevant. I said something similar in mid-2021; "I think it is important for farmOS' community to grow quickly enough that it can retain its position as the defacto leader (at least according |
| [10:24:21] | <symbioquine[m]> | to my perception) in the "truly-FOSS farm data management" space. I suspect it would be too easy for a new player to promote a less free but still technically open source solution and gain traction/backing with bigger agricultural entities, then monetize in a harmful way - see examples like Elasti.co, Mapbox GL, Oracle Java, etc." |
| [10:28:45] | <symbioquine[m]> | farmOS needs to be able to stand strongly enough that such a new player would need to justify themselves and their intentions. And it needs to keep accumulating passionate and exceptional community like we find here already. |
| [10:29:48] | <mstenta[m]> | Agreed. |
| [10:30:14] | <mstenta[m]> | And the perennial question is: what can we do to stay on that course? |
| [10:30:38] | <mstenta[m]> | With the resources we have |
| [10:30:49] | <mstenta[m]> | What broad and fine strokes are the most impactful |
| [10:30:54] | <symbioquine[m]> | Yeah, there can be no complacency/stagnation. |
| [10:32:10] | <mstenta[m]> | And one big challenge we have is: most of our development right now is sponsored, which means that it largely focuses on the use-cases of groups who have money to fund us. That's not a bad thing, but it doesn't guarantee that long term and short term strategy is aligned. |
| [10:32:24] | <mstenta[m]> | focused* |
| [10:33:18] | <mstenta[m]> | For example, if building an offline-first app is the most impactful long-term strategy, but no one wants to fund that, how do we make it happen? |
| [10:33:45] | <mstenta[m]> | And that of course raises the broader question: how do we (as a community) decide what the most impactful long term strategies are for the project as a whole? |
| [10:35:02] | <mstenta[m]> | (All that said, I am grateful that right now we have some new funding to focus on community-requested features... which is really great. It's not a huge amount, but it's allowing us to knock off a lot of the low-hanging fruit features and bugs that have come up recently.) |
| [10:35:29] | <mstenta[m]> | But funding is fickle. It can go away or change priorities at any time. |
| [10:43:38] | <mstenta[m]> | I think we have an answer to these questions already. We have an OpenCollective: https://opencollective.com/farmos. And we have a "funding proposal" policy for proposing/voting on/spending those funds. |
| [10:44:00] | <mstenta[m]> | We just don't have enough funds to support big development efforts. |
| [10:48:34] | <mstenta[m]> | PS: speaking of the "funding proposal policy"... I have an idea to improve that a bit. Right now we don't really have strict rules about how it works. I might propose we solidify that a little bit more. What I was thinking is: we require that proposals specify a "deadline", and we requires a certain number of "yes" votes by that date (or maybe a ratio of yes to no votes). AND we require that anyone who votes "no" leave a comment to justify |
| [10:48:34] | <mstenta[m]> | their vote, otherwise it doesn't get counted. So it is the responsibility of the proposer to justify the funds in their proposal, and it is the responsibility of "no" voters to justify their veto. |
| [10:53:53] | <tamtran94[m]> | I'll read again ASAP (depend on 👀 health with electric screen all day long every working days)... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/NRfTwzOLMsoZrpUB...) |
| [10:53:55] | <mstenta[m]> | > We just don't have enough funds to support big development efforts. |
| [10:53:55] | <mstenta[m]> | We need fundraising initiatives :-) |
| [10:54:19] | <mstenta[m]> | Get well soon tamtran94! Thanks for chatting! |
| [10:55:20] | <tamtran94[m]> | * I'll read again ASAP (depend on 👀 health with electric screen all day long every working days)... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/RUJLmmdymWCznrwr...) |
| [10:58:09] | <mstenta[m]> | > We need fundraising initiatives :-) |
| [10:58:09] | <mstenta[m]> | Maybe we should propose to spend some of our funds on supporting a fundraising effort |
| [10:58:28] | <mstenta[m]> | "Gotta spend money to make money" |
| [12:55:54] | <symbioquine[m]> | https://bendauphinee.com/writing/2023/12/30/to-know-where-you-are/ |
| [13:02:23] | <mstenta[m]> | symbioquine: I would be curious what you think of this, when you have some time: https://github.com/farmOS/farmOS/pull/781 |
| [13:02:48] | <mstenta[m]> | wotnak paul121 too! |
| [13:10:57] | <symbioquine[m]> | Cool, I'll try to take a look soon |
| [13:19:00] | <mstenta[m]> | Tl;dr: it adds a new plan_record entity type that sit between plan entities and the asset or log quantities that they reference, along with other metadata about the relationship itself |
| [13:20:37] | <mstenta[m]> | Example: a crop plan can reference a plant asset but also keep track of metadata that is specific to that plan's relationship, like the planned seeding date, days to transplant, days to harvest, harvest window, etc |
| [13:20:56] | <mstenta[m]> | Which may be different from the "actual" dates recorded by logs |
| [13:22:57] | <mstenta[m]> | In the crop planning module for v1 we basically had a custom database table for that information |
| [13:23:08] | <mstenta[m]> | This proposes a new entity type for those use cases |
| [13:41:31] | <mstenta[m]> | * Tl;dr: it adds a new plan_record entity type that sit between plan entities and the asset or log entities that they reference, along with other metadata about the relationship itself |
| [16:27:46] | <shplorf[m]> | <mstenta[m]> "Tl;dr: it adds a new plan_recor..." <- That’s a neat way to do it! |
