| [22:26:17] | * farmBOT has joined #farmos |
| [08:25:36] | <piegeux[m]> | This is probably a dumb question as farming isn't manufacturing.., where would you say FarmOS would fall in the typical manufacturing digital tools? Also, is there a conscious choice to line up with that or is it just more of a happenstance? |
| [08:25:37] | <piegeux[m]> | https://www.ordinal.fr/en/scada-and-mes-the-pyramids-secret.htm |
| [08:34:31] | <lordeddi[m]> | not and easy question to answer by me, but i can try giving some information. |
| [08:34:31] | <lordeddi[m]> | farmOS is build to be flexible for many different farmer's usecases, in that sense "it all depends" |
| [08:34:31] | <lordeddi[m]> | depending on how you choose to use farmOS. It's the user who decidedes really. |
| [08:35:53] | <lordeddi[m]> | and this isn't really a great answer i feel. But, foremost, i wanted to point out the architectural flexibility which is inherit in farmOS. |
| [08:36:02] | <lordeddi[m]> | not sure if that helps? |
| [08:45:40] | <piegeux[m]> | It was more a question out of curiosity, I guess from a very high level, I'd like to start using farmos actively on our small operation and I do have a composting project that I'd like to use as training grounds for automation/M4.0 type implementation (https://www.umh.app/) and a stretch goal of mine would be to have farmOS tied. |
| [08:45:40] | <piegeux[m]> | I think from a pragmatic standpoint, I can link them through red-node. |
| [08:45:40] | <piegeux[m]> | But I was more curious as to from a more philosophical level I guess where this would fit. I'm a little bit trying to put a square in a circle by mixing manufacturing concepts to farming. Which is always dangerous territory! |
| [08:47:26] | <mstenta[m]> | There is a lot of overlap between farming and manufacturing processes, I think! |
| [08:47:51] | <mstenta[m]> | You could almost think of manufacturing as a simplified version of farming! 😄 |
| [08:47:52] | <lordeddi[m]> | I think it would be worth while setting up a farmOS instance (if possible) and try setting up your composting project. |
| [08:47:52] | <lordeddi[m]> | There are people who use node-red to automate things. |
| [08:48:11] | <lordeddi[m]> | You could look at farmOS as a farm-ish ledger build on drupal, the possibilities are almonst infinite :D |
| [08:48:30] | <mstenta[m]> | In farming, all of the various systems and components of production are alive! |
| [08:48:35] | <lordeddi[m]> | mstenta[m]: i never looked at it that way :D this is great! |
| [08:48:55] | <mstenta[m]> | Both take inputs and create outputs |
| [08:49:17] | <mstenta[m]> | But manufacturing is a lot easier to control all the variables |
| [08:50:26] | <mstenta[m]> | Farming is an act of harnessing nature's infinitely complex manufacturing processes and directing them towards feeding people (or trying) |
| [08:51:17] | <mstenta[m]> | I don't know if that helps at all piegeux - but that's how I see it philosophically :-) |
| [08:52:31] | <mstenta[m]> | As it relates to software... it means building a farm management system is a lot more complicated |
| [08:53:00] | <mstenta[m]> | That's why farmOS tries to model things in a general way, and build up from there |
| [08:53:16] | <mstenta[m]> | It is a process as much as a product |
| [08:57:05] | <mstenta[m]> | > You could look at farmOS as a farm-ish ledger build on drupal, the possibilities are almonst infinite :D |
| [08:57:05] | <mstenta[m]> | +1 a lot of the core design of farmOS's data model mirrors a bookkeeping system... with account (assets) and transactions (logs) |
| [08:57:26] | <mstenta[m]> | s/account/accounts/ |
| [08:59:16] | <mstenta[m]> | before starting farmOS I was playing around with building a Drupal-based double entry bookkeeping system: https://www.drupal.org/project/ledger |
| [08:59:42] | <mstenta[m]> | of course, with farming, it's a bit harder to map double-entry-type transactions within a system 😅 |
| [09:00:24] | <mstenta[m]> | (although with the inventory module in farmOS you basically can do that if you wanted to) |
| [09:00:57] | <mstenta[m]> | (in fact I still have ambitions of dusting off the Ledger project and working in some of the lessons learned in farmOS... and perhaps making them work together...) |
| [09:48:11] | <piegeux[m]> | I wouldn't say simplified but definitely different! |
| [09:48:11] | <piegeux[m]> | Less risky endeavor for sure. |
| [10:23:17] | <mstenta[m]> | Simpler to represent in a database, perhaps. |
| [10:33:11] | <lordeddi[m]> | question about structuring some data: Not sure how I would go about this, but i got a truffle which comes with an oak. Its a symbiosis or something.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/48ac327610...) |
| [10:34:31] | <mstenta[m]> | Are you managing both? |
| [10:34:31] | <symbioquine[m]> | > <@lordeddi:oblak.be> question about structuring some data: Not sure how I would go about this, but i got a truffle which comes with an oak. Its a symbiosis or something.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/4606b160a7...) |
| [10:34:37] | <symbioquine[m]> | If so, I'd recommend tracking the oaks as assets first. |
| [10:36:15] | <symbioquine[m]> | Since they're visible and easy to label/track, it gives you a concrete place to associate records. |
| [10:36:49] | <symbioquine[m]> | * visible and "easy, * easy" to |
| [10:36:52] | <lordeddi[m]> | hm... good questions and tips. |
| [10:36:52] | <lordeddi[m]> | lemmy give a bit more information. |
| [10:36:52] | <lordeddi[m]> | This specific oak contains the mycelium of the truffle already, the tag claims "controlled plant" meaning it was succesfully inoculated -> so i do wanna track that truffle, now that i still know where i planted it :D |
| [10:36:52] | <lordeddi[m]> | I also have many many oaks of that same species planted already, but they wont have truffles (unless im very very lucky :D) |
| [10:37:14] | <lordeddi[m]> | so to me it seems to make more sense tracking the truffle |
| [10:37:18] | <lordeddi[m]> | since that is what i "planted" |
| [10:37:31] | <lordeddi[m]> | but then it kinda points (geo) to an oak :D |
| [10:37:39] | <lordeddi[m]> | this all 🤯 me a bit |
| [10:37:55] | <mstenta[m]> | In the farm_mushroom module, I tracked inoculation of (dead) oak logs |
| [10:38:00] | <symbioquine[m]> | Do you imagine you have any information that you want to track about the oaks themselves? Care, species, etc? |
| [10:38:18] | <mstenta[m]> | in that case, the mushrooms (or rather the innoculated substrate) was the asset |
| [10:38:25] | <symbioquine[m]> | Seems easiest to make the oaks assets and locations, then have the truffle asset "located" at the oak asset. |
| [10:39:04] | <symbioquine[m]> | s/oaks/oak/, s/and// |
| [10:39:39] | <lordeddi[m]> | symbioquine[m]: yeah perhaps. I know the species, what throws me off is that i also plant that species under the "reforestation" idea, and this single one is the "special one" |
| [10:39:58] | <lordeddi[m]> | symbioquine[m]: ooo, i kinda like this approach too |
| [10:40:32] | <lordeddi[m]> | okay i will let it "compost" in my mind a bit :D |
| [10:40:34] | <lordeddi[m]> | thanks a lot ! |
| [12:30:45] | <piegeux[m]> | > <@mstenta:matrix.org> > You could look at farmOS as a farm-ish ledger build on drupal, the possibilities are almonst infinite :D |
| [12:30:45] | <piegeux[m]> | > |
| [12:30:45] | <piegeux[m]> | > +1 a lot of the core design of farmOS's data model mirrors a bookkeeping system... with accounts (assets) and transactions (logs) |
| [12:30:45] | <piegeux[m]> | yeah, I think that is a wise decision, I do believe that the automation/manufacturing world is coming around to the same understanding, and are more and more accepting of an event driven architecture. Because, they are realising that their simplistic models/implementation become a huge technical debt that locks the operations into less flexibility amongst other things... |
| [12:32:25] | <piegeux[m]> | piegeux[m]: there's also something that seems to mesh well with blockchain technology but I'm getting ahead of myself. |
| [12:32:42] | <mstenta[m]> | True :-) |
| [12:33:35] | <mstenta[m]> | If you need an "append only" ledger |
| [12:34:20] | <piegeux[m]> | mstenta[m]: when are they going to come up with the block-web |
| [12:34:49] | <mstenta[m]> | Traceability is a valid use case for that |
| [12:36:24] | <symbioquine[m]> | There's a lot of baggage associated with the word "Blockchain" - better to (IMHO) to just stick to talking about Merkle trees |
| [12:36:38] | <piegeux[m]> | symbioquine[m]: lol |
| [12:36:41] | <symbioquine[m]> | Lots of these use-cases don't require proof of work or proof of stake |
| [12:37:18] | <symbioquine[m]> | Just a verifiable ledger/fork/merge model |
| [12:37:38] | <symbioquine[m]> | s/to// |
| [12:38:17] | <symbioquine[m]> | It might even be reasonable to build on top of Git... |
| [12:38:37] | <symbioquine[m]> | https://isomorphic-git.org/ |
| [12:38:55] | <symbioquine[m]> | ^ Existing git implementation that can run in the browser |
| [12:39:07] | <mstenta[m]> | Git... the original Blockchain™️ |
| [12:41:01] | <symbioquine[m]> | With a bit of hacking it's already possible to do peer-to-peer in-browser Git operations over WebRTC: https://github.com/isomorphic-git/isomorphic-git/issues/1071#issuecommen... |