| [20:01:13] | * JustTB has joined #farmos |
| [22:40:06] | * JustTB has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| [22:55:15] | * JustTB has joined #farmos |
| [07:32:57] | * JustTB has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| [07:46:01] | * JustTB has joined #farmos |
| [10:41:00] | * JustTB has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| [13:43:03] | * ludwa6 has joined #farmos |
| [13:48:18] | <ludwa6> | hello room. Can anyone tell me: might there be any online discussion board(s) and/or mailing list(s) serving the farmOS user community, that you might point me to? IRC is great for real-time exchange, but i am looking for asynchronous messaging, with permenent storage and search. Is there any such resource? |
| [13:49:26] | <mstenta[m]> | ludwa6: This is something we've been discussing more recently... |
| [13:49:37] | <mstenta[m]> | Right now, the GitHub issue queue is the closest thing we have to a forum |
| [13:49:43] | <mstenta[m]> | https://github.com/farmOS/farmOS |
| [13:49:58] | <mstenta[m]> | But we are giving thought to making a real forum as the need grows |
| [13:50:57] | <mstenta[m]> | The cost of maintaining a forum has outweighed the need for one... but that's changing as interest grows |
| [13:51:29] | <ludwa6> | OK. I’ll take a look at the issue tracker, and see if i can divine from that some sense of the user community. |
| [13:52:05] | <mstenta[m]> | Note: the Github issue queue is not the primary "issue tracker" for farmOS |
| [13:52:20] | <dornawcox[m]> | I might humbly suggest that we add a section to the GOAT forum just as we have done for Farm Hack? It is the intention to move all of Farm Hack's forum conversations over to discourse and to GOAT so that we also have a critical mass of activity and can share moderation. |
| [13:52:22] | <mstenta[m]> | https://farmos.org/development/issue-queues/ |
| [13:54:10] | <mstenta[m]> | @dornawcox:matrix.org: That is definitely one of the approaches we can consider. |
| [13:54:37] | <mstenta[m]> | Whatever we do... I want to make sure it's the best long-term solution. |
| [13:54:48] | <ludwa6> | A forum would be a great idea, whether at GOAT or wherever. It can be free of cost, if unmoderated... |
| [13:55:00] | <mstenta[m]> | If it seems like farmOS will need a forum of it's own, using an existing forum means we would need to deal with splitting/migrating in the future. |
| [13:55:25] | <mstenta[m]> | ludwa6: The costs would also include server hosting, software updates, etc. |
| [13:55:31] | <dornawcox[m]> | Out.Sci is taking the approach to be on GOAT for now anyway. |
| [13:55:36] | <ludwa6> | … and even unmoderated forums tend to self-organize quite well, when it comes to software for serious purposes, like farmOS. |
| [13:56:01] | <mstenta[m]> | Agreed! |
| [13:56:29] | <mstenta[m]> | And we do have some budget available (via OpenCollective) if we want to set something up on a SaaS provider |
| [13:56:29] | <dornawcox[m]> | The advantage of having some link would be cross polination of the communities too... |
| [13:56:49] | <mstenta[m]> | My general philosophy is to maintain as little as possible - hence why we're still just using Github :-) |
| [13:57:31] | <ludwa6> | browsing this issue tracker is interesting, but it’s not really the place for newbie “issues” (i.e. questions. RTFM, i know… am trying, as time permits! :- |
| [13:57:58] | <MockingbirdConsu> | If it's discourse on GOAT anyway, then would it not be a bit easier to extract ourselves in future if we needed to? |
| [13:59:00] | <ludwa6> | does GOAT have Discourse forums? that would be just the ticket, for what’s needed here. |
| [13:59:12] | <mstenta[m]> | > browsing this issue tracker is interesting, but it’s not really the place for newbie “issues” (i.e. questions. RTFM, i know… am trying, as time permits! :- |
| [13:59:13] | <mstenta[m]> | GitHub isn't great for that... agreed. The lack of questions there, though, is mainly because people have been asking here, or emailing me directly - which is not scalable :-) |
| [13:59:20] | <MockingbirdConsu> | forum.goatech.org is Discourse looking at the page source |
| [13:59:39] | <dornawcox[m]> | I believe that a discourse subforum could be set up so that you get the effect of single sign on but maintain some autonomy and could isolate the farmOS specific activity on FarmOS.org? |
| [14:00:18] | <mstenta[m]> | > If it's discourse on GOAT anyway, then would it not be a bit easier to extract ourselves in future if we needed to? |
| [14:00:19] | <mstenta[m]> | Extracting isn't necessarily easy. But that's definitely an option. |
| [14:00:33] | <MockingbirdConsu> | I've hosted/run forums before, and to be honest, it's not something I'd be keen to do again or would wish on anyone else. If the answers to "newbie" questions are already in the docs then let's get some issues logged to make that info easier to find. If the answers aren't in there already, then let's get some issues logged to make sure they get created? |
| [14:00:48] | <MockingbirdConsu> | s/are/aren't already in the docs/g |
| [14:01:09] | <mstenta[m]> | Mockingbird Consulting: that's my feeling as well |
| [14:01:31] | <mstenta[m]> | I don't think the volume has necessitated a forum yet... but maybe soon |
| [14:01:48] | <mstenta[m]> | My other concern is adding ANOTHER place that information is spread out over |
| [14:02:27] | <dornawcox[m]> | I believe that David Forester is the discourse admin. I will having Pete Land and Dave connect about just this issue for Farm Hack - probably in the June timeframe. We don't want to splinter the conversations ! |
| [14:02:29] | <mstenta[m]> | But, that changes as needs grow |
| [14:03:16] | <MockingbirdConsu> | heh, this reminds me of the "Mailing list vs. Forum" arguments of the late 1990's/early 2000's :joy |
| [14:03:23] | <MockingbirdConsu> | :joy: |
| [14:03:29] | <MockingbirdConsu> | :joy |
| [14:03:35] | <mstenta[m]> | Mockingbird Consulting: yup :-) that's something we joked about on the call when we discussed all this |
| [14:03:42] | <MockingbirdConsu> | ACTION gives up trying to get the emojis working and goes home... |
| [14:04:04] | <mstenta[m]> | farmOS had a mailing list at one point... that another community member set up... but we never used it |
| [14:04:38] | <mstenta[m]> | I'm a data hoarder... and whatever we do needs to have a plan for maintaining the data moving forward - including migrating to new platforms when needed |
| [14:04:43] | <mstenta[m]> | :-) |
| [14:05:03] | <mstenta[m]> | That's my hope anyway |
| [14:06:43] | <ludwa6> | well… As a new user, trialling the app, to see if it’s going to satisfy the needs of my farm, it’s user community that i’m looking for… And i imagine (tho i have no idea) there must be many like me. |
| [14:07:05] | <mstenta[m]> | It seems like Discourse is the front runner, in terms of open source forum software |
| [14:07:07] | <mstenta[m]> | That's what forum.goatech.org is |
| [14:07:24] | <MockingbirdConsu> | @lud |
| [14:07:48] | <MockingbirdConsu> | ludwa6: makes sense, I know that many prefer "The Things Network" forums, whereas I'm permanently in their slack channel |
| [14:08:08] | <MockingbirdConsu> | but the slack channel is more "engineering" focused, whereas the forums are more about connecting devices to the network etc. |
| [14:08:47] | <ludwa6> | That’s what i’m seeing so far. Does not address the n00b need, AFAICT. |
| [14:09:09] | <mstenta[m]> | It's also worth noting: there has been very little demand for a forum up until this point - just a few folks have asked about it (mainly tech-savy folks like us). |
| [14:09:18] | <mstenta[m]> | Maybe having one would increase that... |
| [14:09:39] | <mstenta[m]> | But that's just to provide context into where we are currently, and why we haven't set one up yet :-) |
| [14:10:04] | <mstenta[m]> | Most questions I receive directly are covered in the user guide |
| [14:10:23] | <mstenta[m]> | So I point people there, and I add feature requests to the issue queues |
| [14:10:31] | <mstenta[m]> | (And add new docs when they don't exist) |
| [14:11:42] | <MockingbirdConsu> | ludwa6: so is there a particular issue you're facing right now that we can help with? |
| [14:11:56] | <ludwa6> | As one trying to do a serious evaluation of the software, the big quesiton i have right now is: what is the installed user base of this app? How many of those are using this software to manage all (or most) info related to the running of their farm? |
| [14:13:04] | <dornawcox[m]> | As we launch more active user groups with Our.Sci and field kit over the summer I imagine a forum will be an important tool. There will be a lot more users that will be getting introduced to both systems this growing season. So not bad to start planning.... |
| [14:13:23] | <MockingbirdConsu> | ah, ok, so it's a question of "What happens when things go wrong? how do I know that I won't be left holding both pieces when it breaks? Am I the only one using this?" kind of thing rather than a "how do I do this thing" ludwa6 |
| [14:13:42] | <ludwa6> | exactly, Mockingbird! |
| [14:13:52] | <mstenta[m]> | @dornawcox:matrix.org: Agreed |
| [14:14:47] | <MockingbirdConsu> | <ludwa6 "exactly, Mockingbird!"> cool, so I don't have a reply to that, because I'm relatively new here myself and I'm not a farmer, but I don't know if there's a "download" count, or information that can be shared about the number of accounts on the hosted service? |
| [14:15:51] | <dornawcox[m]> | Mike and I have also talked extensively about adding some direct communications links from within FarmOS so that users can connect P2P. |
| [14:16:15] | <ludwa6> | That would rock, @dornawcox |
| [14:16:42] | <ludwa6> | But are you talking about just users within the same farm? |
| [14:17:29] | <dornawcox[m]> | Both within the farm but also other farmOS users. |
| [14:17:45] | <MockingbirdConsu> | What I can say, is that I've shown this to a few farmers local to me in the UK and they're definitely interested in something that has the capabilities of FarmOS, and we're planning to roll out LoRaWAN sensor networks that use a combination of FarmOS and elasticsearch from Elastic.co as the front-end/data analysis platform in the very near future, so we've got a vested interest in this working :D |
| [14:19:54] | <MockingbirdConsu> | <dornawcox[m] "Both within the farm but also ot"> This sounds amazing |
| [14:20:18] | <ludwa6> | also: as a new BFA Chapter leader, i’m getting the sense that there’s some connection between the RealFood Campaign, our-sci.net and farmOS. Is this correct? |
| [14:20:59] | <dornawcox[m]> | Don Blair and I were working with Cabal which is a variation on the DAT/Beaker browser distributed browser/hosting approach. We got it working also as a way to share the same approach for IOT devices and prototyped a Lora sensor posting to FarmOS through Cabal. Could be done with a more simple group chat approach (matrix?) As well. |
| [14:23:12] | <mstenta[m]> | > also: as a new BFA Chapter leader, i’m getting the sense that there’s some connection between the RealFood Campaign, our-sci.net and farmOS. Is this correct? |
| [14:23:13] | <mstenta[m]> | I'm working with Our Sci to provide farmOS hosting (and some sponsored feature development) for farms particpating in the RFC study this year. |
| [14:23:54] | <MockingbirdConsu> | What's the BFA? Searches for BFA and Farming just seem to bring up "World of Warcraft" videos... :( |
| [14:24:15] | <mstenta[m]> | Bionutrient Food Association |
| [14:24:25] | <mstenta[m]> | http://bionutrient.org |
| [14:24:43] | <MockingbirdConsu> | ah, cool, thanks |
| [14:26:03] | <ludwa6> | so mstenta: does this mean that farmOS will be the defacto standard for those test farms in RFC to collect & share their baseline data about their farms, soils, treatments, etc.? |
| [14:27:49] | <mstenta[m]> | ludwa6: It's a mix between farmOS and Our Sci |
| [14:28:36] | <mstenta[m]> | Farmers are mapping their fields in farmOS (for use in the study), then they are using the Our Sci survey app throughout the season to collect data, which is pushed into both the Our Sci database, and individual farmOS instances |
| [14:29:24] | <mstenta[m]> | So that at the end of the year, farmers will be able to view all their records in their individual farmOS |
| [14:29:25] | <mstenta[m]> | And so that data can be easily pulled out |
| [14:33:34] | <ludwa6> | mstenta: cool. so they only have to enter data once, and relevant data is maintained current in both the farmOS instance and the our-sci.net database? sounds great. |
| [14:34:11] | <mstenta[m]> | That's the idea, yea - still in the process of rolling it out. |
| [14:34:27] | <mstenta[m]> | Trying to keep the data entry as easy as possible for the participating farmers :-) |
| [14:35:36] | <ludwa6> | a very worthy goal, mstenta ; we working farmers have little time to chance bits&bytes around :-) |
| [14:35:47] | <mstenta[m]> | The survey approach is exciting, I think, because it lowers the learning curve for farmOS... farmers can start using farmOS during the season or later (if they want), and see their records populated already - which goes a long way to clarifying how to use farmOS |
| [14:36:42] | <mstenta[m]> | Starting with a blank slate can be overwhelming - even with documentation, demo videos, webinars, etc |
| [14:36:54] | <mstenta[m]> | But if you see some of your actual records in there - it all clicks |
| [14:36:56] | <ludwa6> | amen! |
| [14:51:55] | * amber65[m] has joined #farmos |
| [14:53:38] | <amber65[m]> | Hello, is there a way to draw a rectangle easily when mapping out an area? I am using an ipad and it is hard to get a nice looking rectangle using my finger. |
| [14:55:59] | <mstenta[m]> | Hi amber65 |
| [14:56:26] | <mstenta[m]> | There isn't a rectangle drawing feature (it's something that's come up as a potential feature request though) |
| [14:56:30] | <mstenta[m]> | Just the polygon button |
| [14:56:39] | <mstenta[m]> | But... question: are you trying to draw beds? |
| [14:56:42] | <mstenta[m]> | Within a field? |
| [14:57:05] | <amber65[m]> | No, just the outline of a field, then I saw your wonderful bed generator to go from the field into beds |
| [14:57:16] | <mstenta[m]> | Oh ok great - yea that's what I was going to say :-) |
| [14:57:28] | <dornawcox[m]> | ludwa6: yes there are lots of connecting projects that bridge RFC Our.Sci and FarmOS. |
| [14:57:32] | <amber65[m]> | I just want my fields to be square, as they are in real life. But no problem, not that big of a deal |
| [14:57:53] | <amber65[m]> | Thank you for confirming for me! |
| [14:58:01] | <mstenta[m]> | Yea, finger drawing can be tricky. :-) |
| [14:58:11] | <mstenta[m]> | If you have access to a computer with mouse, you might have better luck |
| [14:58:26] | <mstenta[m]> | amber65: sure thing! |
| [14:59:33] | <ludwa6> | @dornawcox : good to hear. What else, besides the project mstenta was talking about, i wonder? |
| [15:04:27] | <ludwa6> | ACTION breaks for supper |
| [16:26:50] | <dornawcox[m]> | Our.sci provides the basic tech and lab that make the real food campaign possible and also links in with the Yale quick carbon project. There are about a half dozen on-farm research projects representing hundreds of farms that are using the combined capacity of our.sci and FarmOS starting this season to document field trials. All are also part of creating what we are calling OpenTEAM or Open Technology Ecosystem for |
| [16:26:51] | <dornawcox[m]> | Agricultural Management. |
| [18:28:53] | * JustTB has joined #farmos |
| [19:36:43] | * JustTB has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| [19:36:54] | * JustTB has joined #farmos |