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| [09:02:22] | <mstenta> | Hey all |
| [09:02:26] | <mstenta> | I'm going to try something here... |
| [09:02:57] | <mstenta> | My friends and I have been experimenting with a new messaging service called riot.im |
| [09:03:05] | <mstenta> | It has an IRC bridge integration feature |
| [09:03:23] | <mstenta> | I created a farmOS room on Riot - I'm going to try to join it to this IRC room |
| [09:03:39] | <mstenta> | With the hope that we can have all the messages shared between both platforms |
| [09:04:28] | <mstenta> | farmBOT: log pointer? |
| [09:04:28] | <farmBOT> | http://farmier.com/bot/log/farmOS/2018-02-27#T23741 |
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| [09:21:03] | <mstenta> | Hmm. Getting an opaque error message: "Failed to make link: Unexpected token < in JSON at position 0" |
| [09:21:14] | <mstenta> | I'll see if the Riot engineers have any ideas... |
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| [09:53:15] | * mstenta[m] has joined #farmos |
| [09:54:04] | <mstenta> | test |
| [09:54:33] | <mstenta> | test (from IRC) |
| [09:54:35] | <mstenta[m]> | test (from Riot) |
| [09:55:01] | <mstenta> | neat! |
| [09:55:10] | <mstenta> | Got the one from Riot here in IRC... |
| [09:55:26] | <mstenta> | But I'm not seeing the ones from IRC (these messages) in Riot... :-/ |
| [09:55:37] | <mstenta> | farmBOT: log pointer? |
| [09:55:37] | <farmBOT> | http://farmier.com/bot/log/farmOS/2018-02-27#T23768 |
| [09:57:00] | <mstenta> | Ah... well now I see "mstenta (IRC) joined the room." in the Riot room (just joined) |
| [09:57:18] | <mstenta> | Ah there we go... See that last message in Riot now :-) |
| [09:57:19] | <mstenta> | Woo! |
| [09:57:46] | <mstenta[m]> | Woooo! |
| [09:58:10] | <mstenta[m]> | Now it says "farmBOT (IRC) joined the room." |
| [09:58:20] | <mstenta[m]> | So I'm not sure what the delay means... if that will end up missing messages |
| [09:58:35] | <mstenta[m]> | There does seem to be some significant delay in messages propogating between the two. |
| [09:58:42] | <mstenta> | Getting a little better it seems... |
| [09:59:10] | <mstenta[m]> | That took 15 seconds |
| [09:59:14] | <mstenta> | That took 6 seconds |
| [09:59:25] | <mstenta[m]> | That took 3 |
| [09:59:28] | <mstenta> | 5 seconds |
| [09:59:41] | <mstenta[m]> | 4 seconds |
| [09:59:45] | <mstenta> | 6 seconds |
| [10:08:48] | * cpm has joined #farmos |
| [10:09:15] | <mstenta> | Hi cpm |
| [10:10:25] | <mstenta> | I'm trying a new messaging service called riot.im |
| [10:10:35] | <mstenta> | I set up a farmOS chat room and created a bridge integration with this IRC room |
| [10:10:36] | <mstenta> | https://riot.im/app/#/room/#farmOS:matrix.org |
| [10:10:55] | <mstenta> | Still testing out the IRC integration part... |
| [10:11:03] | <mstenta> | Seems to be working - with a bit of a delay |
| [10:16:37] | * donblair[m] has joined #farmos |
| [10:17:20] | <donblair[m]> | Hallo! This is integrated with IRC? Neat! |
| [10:20:05] | <mstenta[m]> | Hi @d |
| [10:20:09] | <mstenta[m]> | Hi donblair |
| [10:20:12] | <mstenta[m]> | It is indeed! |
| [10:20:23] | <mstenta[m]> | A bit of a delay between the two - but it's working! |
| [10:21:21] | <donblair[m]> | Wow, cool! |
| [10:21:38] | <mstenta[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: Screenshot from 2018-02-27 10-21-19.png (64KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/YzBtZcCmExnKxBOm... |
| [10:22:00] | <mstenta[m]> | Ooh neat - it shows a link to the screenshot in the IRC chat |
| [10:22:16] | <donblair[m]> | Woah |
| [10:22:18] | <donblair[m]> | What kind of magic is this |
| [10:22:26] | <mstenta[m]> | The lag seems to be improving too |
| [10:22:45] | <mstenta> | This is a test from the IRC room! Hello Riot! |
| [10:22:59] | <donblair[m]> | Hello IRC room! |
| [10:23:05] | <mstenta> | :-D |
| [10:23:53] | <mstenta> | Testing 1 2 3 |
| [10:23:57] | <mstenta[m]> | Now just to be sure... this still works if I leave one of them, right? |
| [10:24:01] | <donblair[m]> | Yep |
| [10:24:05] | <mstenta> | Great |
| [10:24:08] | <mstenta> | Now the other way around... |
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| [10:24:21] | <donblair[m]> | Still hearin' 12 3 |
| [10:24:43] | <mstenta[m]> | Test 1 2 3 |
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| [10:25:00] | <donblair[m]> | A few days ago, I was able to set up a matrix-synapse server on an Ubuntu digital ocean server -- and it worked! including VOIP! Now I want to try setting that up on a Raspberry Pi (likely running Ubuntu), served out of my home ... |
| [10:25:15] | <donblair[m]> | It would be cool to figure out how to set up these servers and federate them |
| [10:25:34] | <mstenta> | That worked |
| [10:25:45] | <mstenta[m]> | Whoa! What?? |
| [10:25:53] | <mstenta[m]> | So you hosted your own Matrix server? |
| [10:25:54] | <donblair[m]> | Also: don't know if you've seen, but there are 'clients' for matrix that are very minimalistic -- just simple text threads |
| [10:26:11] | <donblair[m]> | Yes! Exciting eh? |
| [10:26:25] | <mstenta[m]> | Wow so would that make a room like #myroom:myserver.tld ? |
| [10:26:26] | <donblair[m]> | It would be great to chat about that and garner wisdom from you |
| [10:26:44] | <donblair[m]> | yes I think that's exactly right |
| [10:26:57] | <mstenta[m]> | Cool |
| [10:27:06] | <mstenta[m]> | One thing I'm noticing... sometimes I see the message in IRC before I see it in here |
| [10:27:15] | <mstenta[m]> | So it must just be a bit of lag in the Riot web client or something |
| [10:28:03] | <donblair[m]> | ah -- interesting |
| [10:28:27] | <mstenta[m]> | Er well... not that time :-) |
| [10:29:20] | <donblair[m]> | It's interesting to think about what parts of this system are useful for what |
| [10:30:17] | <mstenta[m]> | Yes |
| [10:30:21] | <mstenta[m]> | Curious about using this for the monthly call |
| [10:31:03] | <donblair[m]> | I've been imagining: setting up a chat and VOIP server on a farm, which would work over local wifi even if the internet connection fails (or if power goes down, as long as you've got your server (RPi) on a battery) |
| [10:31:11] | <mstenta[m]> | Oh wow! |
| [10:31:32] | <donblair[m]> | there's also the idea of: since the matrix client can be quite minimalist, we could have it appear on part of a web page and have e.g. sensor readings or resource deployment maps on the other part, or somethin |
| [10:31:48] | <donblair[m]> | yeah, monthly call! |
| [10:32:03] | <mstenta[m]> | Oh very interesting... |
| [10:32:11] | <mstenta[m]> | I wonder if I could put it directly in the farmOS UI? |
| [10:32:14] | <mstenta[m]> | So folks using farmOS could get quick help via chat |
| [10:32:28] | <donblair[m]> | that'd be super slick |
| [10:32:38] | <donblair[m]> | have you already done that with IRC? |
| [10:33:00] | <mstenta[m]> | Nope - just linked to the freenode webpage |
| [10:33:12] | <mstenta[m]> | But it's not very visible unless you look for it |
| [10:33:20] | <donblair[m]> | it'd be fun to check out the clients that are out there for matrix -- |
| [10:33:21] | <mstenta[m]> | I could see a little "Chat" button in the bottom of every page or something |
| [10:33:24] | <mstenta[m]> | That opens up this |
| [10:33:28] | <donblair[m]> | there is a python-based one, a javascript-based one ... some of them very minimalist ... |
| [10:33:41] | <mstenta[m]> | Wow neat |
| [10:33:52] | <mstenta[m]> | So this system is really building some momentum, eh? |
| [10:33:52] | <donblair[m]> | right -- or even just a 'pane' along the right hand side or something with a chat stream |
| [10:34:10] | <mstenta[m]> | Yea |
| [10:34:10] | <donblair[m]> | esp. if that chat stream could be connected to general notifications from farmier about stuff, or soemthing |
| [10:34:25] | <mstenta[m]> | Mmm yea |
| [10:34:26] | <donblair[m]> | I think they have gotten $5 mill in funding recently and are really jamming hard |
| [10:34:37] | <mstenta[m]> | Some kind of announcement system perhaps |
| [10:34:41] | <mstenta[m]> | Wow |
| [10:35:32] | <mstenta[m]> | So... Riot.im is the software? And Matrix.org is the network? |
| [10:35:51] | <mstenta[m]> | (ie: Matrix.org is to Freenode as Riot.im is to Hexchat?) |
| [10:36:21] | <donblair[m]> | I think 'matrix' is the protocol ... Matrix.org is the non-profit / foundation set up to try to make it work nicely ... and Riot.im is a 'client' that can speak the matrix protocol |
| [10:36:35] | <donblair[m]> | want to try a quick VOIP chat? |
| [10:36:54] | <donblair[m]> | yes i think that's right |
| [10:37:55] | <donblair[m]> | Freenode is an IRC server implementing the IRC protocol, and Hexchat is a client that allows the end user to interact with other end users on Freenode yeah? |
| [10:37:56] | <mstenta[m]> | oh ok |
| [10:38:02] | <mstenta[m]> | yes |
| [10:38:22] | <donblair[m]> | (i think) |
| [10:38:37] | <mstenta[m]> | yea that all makes sense |
| [10:39:23] | <donblair[m]> | VOIP seems to be a separate part, using a 'TURN' server -- but nicely integrated into the client, and using (I guess) the same matrix credentialing system? |
| [10:39:30] | <mstenta[m]> | ok |
| [10:39:55] | <donblair[m]> | i followed the instructions for setting it up and it just worked -- i think the VOIP is based on WebRTC |
| [10:40:38] | <donblair[m]> | also, get this: |
| [10:41:13] | <donblair[m]> | i was able to run one of the Node-based clients ... |
| [10:41:17] | * mstenta has quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| [10:41:30] | <donblair[m]> | ... I just realized I don't know what I'm talking about. |
| [10:41:33] | <donblair[m]> | But pressing on: |
| [10:41:42] | <mstenta[m]> | Haha |
| [10:42:10] | <donblair[m]> | it would be cool if we could use /commands in Matrix to activate relays or query sensors |
| [10:42:12] | <mstenta[m]> | Ooooh neat |
| [10:42:13] | <donblair[m]> | i'm not sure it would be useful .... |
| [10:42:55] | <donblair[m]> | but in a way maybe having a 'room' that has the history of commands is sort of interesting |
| [10:43:04] | <donblair[m]> | almost like a 'bot' that tells you about your greenhouse |
| [10:44:10] | <mstenta[m]> | Yea |
| [10:44:46] | <mstenta[m]> | Side question: Are you using the browser-based Riot client? Does yours make a noise when a message comes in? |
| [10:44:55] | <mstenta[m]> | Mine doesn't - but I think I have it configured to for this room (set to "All messages (loud)") |
| [10:45:12] | <donblair[m]> | ahh -- i'm using the browser-based client but i think i'd set notifications off |
| [10:45:20] | * cpm[m] has joined #farmos |
| [10:45:25] | <mstenta[m]> | Ah nevermind - I found a setting "Enable audible notifications" (on the account level) |
| [10:45:27] | <mstenta[m]> | Got it :-) |
| [10:45:31] | <donblair[m]> | ah there you go |
| [10:45:40] | <mstenta[m]> | great |
| [10:45:53] | <donblair[m]> | so it's also cool that one can connect an 'etherpad' to the room |
| [10:46:06] | <mstenta[m]> | ah yea i noticed that |
| [10:46:13] | <mstenta[m]> | it wasn't working for me though i don't think |
| [10:46:15] | <donblair[m]> | in the FIOT room, we've been using that to keep links to google docs and etc |
| [10:46:33] | <donblair[m]> | ah oops -- what OS are you usin |
| [10:46:48] | <mstenta[m]> | Ubuntu |
| [10:47:00] | <mstenta[m]> | What is the FIOT room? I'll add it to my favorites |
| [10:47:18] | <mstenta[m]> | I'm noticing that all the rooms/invites I got earlier didn't stick... so I need to find them again |
| [10:52:09] | <donblair[m]> | haha oops i'm using a crappy laptop and froze everything sorry |
| [10:52:14] | <donblair[m]> | does this work? https://riot.im/app/#/room/#fiot:matrix.org |
| [10:52:14] | <cpm> | got a few buddies who are running matrix because they refuse to trust Signal |
| [10:53:23] | <donblair[m]> | oh interesting! |
| [10:54:49] | <donblair[m]> | i saw a thread on hackernews ... the way they framed it there was: Signal is centralized, so you have to trust their decisions / control of the tech. But the counterpoint was that in a federated system like matrix, you have to trust the 'lowest common denominator' in terms of their security ... I didn't know quite how to sort that out in my head |
| [10:55:36] | <donblair[m]> | But it does seem as though: if you're able to run your own server for your own community, and you've established trust / good practices within that community, then that's pretty ideal |
| [10:55:42] | <cpm> | you also have to trust all the various admins to keep their installed code patched. FAIL |
| [10:55:51] | <mstenta[m]> | Hi cpm! |
| [10:55:58] | <cpm> | morn'n mstenta[m] |
| [10:56:12] | <donblair[m]> | right! |
| [10:56:40] | <donblair[m]> | but then of course: i just set up a matrix server and i have no idea what i'm doing as admin so now i'm anxious about a 'fail' :) |
| [10:57:09] | <mstenta[m]> | Hmm can't seem to join #fiot:matrix.org |
| [10:57:09] | <donblair[m]> | but to your point: at least i can ask someone i trust, who knows what they're doing, to be admin |
| [10:57:35] | <cpm> | donblair[m], and of course, what makes signal work, is that it just works. For ims, for voice, for video conf, etc. All this is also true of matrix *except* the 'just works' bit. IE, can you go download, install, verify, and start using matrix on your phone in 5 min, and get your mom to do it too? Ummmm, , nope. |
| [10:57:46] | <mstenta[m]> | Tried clicking "Click here to join discussion" and just see the spinning wheel |
| [10:58:00] | <cpm> | give it a bit. Takes a while. |
| [10:58:06] | <cpm> | on the web client? |
| [10:58:41] | <donblair[m]> | oh -- mstenta -- i think you're invited under your matrix account -- but your'e signed in right now under a 'IRC bridge' acct or something? |
| [10:58:43] | <donblair[m]> | lemme send invite to both |
| [10:58:46] | <cpm> | donblair[m], to wit, folks insisting on matrix, and then using FaceBook msgnr to communicate with 'regular folks'. Makes no sense. |
| [10:59:59] | <donblair[m]> | cpm: great point |
| [11:01:20] | <donblair[m]> | another angle: because i tend to put a lot of energy into these communication channels, i just love the idea of being able to know where my data lives and being able to access it -- so matrix is great on that score |
| [11:01:44] | <mstenta[m]> | donblair: Yea logging and the ability to export that is key |
| [11:01:53] | <cpm> | matrix is pretty awesome. Was considering spinning up a server. But I have more pressing projects right now. |
| [11:01:56] | <mstenta[m]> | I assume Matrix offers that? I haven't looked for it yet |
| [11:02:26] | <cpm> | I miss XMPP |
| [11:02:34] | <mstenta[m]> | the #farmOS IRC is logged by a bot, so I've got double-backup ;-) |
| [11:03:37] | <donblair[m]> | ah, great question mstenta -- haha i'm just assuming that export is easy / possible, but don't actually know -- possible fail there :) |
| [11:03:45] | <donblair[m]> | ahhhh good ol' xmpp |
| [11:04:28] | <cpm> | yeah, when everyone supported it, google chat, fb, etc. And with an otr client, worked great. |
| [11:05:26] | <donblair[m]> | cpm: i hear that. it wasn't totally straightfoward, but i think it's pretty easy for someone who knows about web dev (i don't). i'm hoping that i can install it on an RPi, then create an image for others to just download and use ... but in the end i think there's still some funny business about registering TLS certificates or whatnot that might be stumbling blocks for people |
| [11:06:06] | <mstenta[m]> | I wonder if you could use letsencrypt for that |
| [11:06:15] | <cpm> | sure. |
| [11:06:43] | <donblair[m]> | oh yeah that's what these instructions i followed led me through |
| [11:06:56] | <cpm> | not could, but rather, should. THe letsencrypt community (imho) is doing a much better job of staying one step ahead of everyone else on this tech. |
| [11:07:20] | <donblair[m]> | you should really take everything i say about the installation procedure's difficulty with a grain of salt -- i'm a complete newbie |
| [11:07:21] | <mstenta[m]> | Yea letsencrypt is amazing |
| [11:07:23] | <donblair[m]> | oh cool |
| [11:07:45] | <cpm> | although it looks like they've been brow-beaten into supporting wildcard certs. which I personally am not in favor of, never have been, think it's a massive mistake |
| [11:08:36] | <mstenta[m]> | Oh yea? |
| [11:08:48] | <mstenta[m]> | I didn't know they didn't offer wildcards already |
| [11:08:51] | <cpm> | yeah. just a quick off the top of my head example. |
| [11:09:07] | <cpm> | I get a wildcard for *.example.tld |
| [11:09:18] | <donblair[m]> | ah what are wildcard certs? i'll look it up -- sounds by the name to be sort of not particularly secure? :) |
| [11:09:41] | <cpm> | then www.paypal.com.$.$.$.$.$.$.example.tld comes up with a nice green lock. |
| [11:09:45] | <mstenta[m]> | Basically allows you to have one certificate for anything *.mydomain.com |
| [11:09:49] | <mstenta[m]> | (all subdomains share the same cert) |
| [11:10:01] | <mstenta[m]> | That's what I'm using for *.farmos.net sites hosted on farmier currently. |
| [11:10:32] | <mstenta[m]> | I bought an old fashioned cert for that... not using letsencrypt |
| [11:10:41] | <cpm> | it's simple enough to script [A-Z].example.tld |
| [11:10:49] | <mstenta[m]> | I was hoping to switch over to letsencrypt, but that would be more complicated if they don't support wildcard subdomain certs yet :-/ |
| [11:10:53] | <donblair[m]> | ahhhhh i see |
| [11:11:23] | <mstenta[m]> | cpm: yea definitely good point on the security/scam aspect of those... |
| [11:11:36] | <cpm> | IE, you put up a new domain, or stub, or sub, then you could script the entire process and get the cert. I don't see where the 'greater good' is served by wildcards. I was opposed to wildcard DNS too, so, that's just me. :) |
| [11:13:00] | <cpm> | mstenta[m], again, work the certbot call into your creation script. |
| [11:13:26] | * chrowe[m] has joined #farmos |
| [11:13:35] | <mstenta[m]> | So donblair ! I'm looking forward to checking out the ESP8266 widget you're working on |
| [11:14:02] | <mstenta[m]> | cpm: yea, that's doable - when i have time to do that :-) |
| [11:14:03] | <donblair[m]> | Ah, great point @cpm -- seems quite possible to automate it |
| [11:14:28] | <cpm> | the coolest bit is that *if* an exploit is discovered (and they are), then the certs are only valid for 90 days tops, so none of this crap like we had with bad SSL certs floating for /years/. |
| [11:14:38] | <mstenta[m]> | Yea that's what's great about letsencrypt - ability to automate cert creation |
| [11:14:47] | <cpm> | yeah, iz awesome. |
| [11:15:11] | <donblair[m]> | mstenta: yes! want to chat quickly later today about how the widget should be designed to make for the best demo? |
| [11:15:24] | <mstenta[m]> | Sure! |
| [11:15:30] | <donblair[m]> | oh wow -- bad SSL certs floating for years -- sounds nasty |
| [11:16:59] | <cpm> | donblair[m], yeah, when the $BIG_FLAW in SSL was discovered, folks had their 3 year commercial certs, and it wasn't like they were going to sit down and reconfigure everything for tls 1.2 or greater ONLY, and get new certs. So in the end, the browsers had to stop accommodating SSL in order to FORCE the adoption of tighter protocols. |
| [11:18:04] | <chrowe[m]> | I could chat around 1 |
| [11:18:49] | <donblair[m]> | 1 is good for me too |
| [11:19:56] | <donblair[m]> | cpm: wow. i'd no idea |
| [11:20:26] | <cpm> | I'm trying to design and implement a very tight default networking protocol schema for FarmOS installations. Pi based, DNSSEC/IPv6/IPSEC from the ground up. this is proving to be a lot harder than I initially thought. |
| [11:20:30] | <cpm> | :) |
| [11:21:23] | <donblair[m]> | oh, wow -- that's really useful and admirable tho |
| [11:22:03] | <donblair[m]> | it's great to start out super secure |
| [11:22:15] | <cpm> | well, , , in the end, I think folks may be waking up to the 'fact' (fsvo) that the whole "Internet of Things" is a rolling dumpster-fire of security horrors. |
| [11:22:52] | <cpm> | and the last thing i thinkgthat massive herd of cats known as 'farmers' wants is their tools spying on them. |
| [11:23:34] | <mstenta[m]> | 1 works for me too |
| [11:23:35] | <donblair[m]> | yessss ... and, i'm definitely going to use 'rolling dumpster-fire' in a sentence later today after some drinks |
| [11:23:48] | <mstenta[m]> | Gonna get some code written before then... I'll be in an out... |
| [11:24:22] | <donblair[m]> | awesome! |
| [11:24:30] | <donblair[m]> | nice meeting you cpm |
| [11:24:39] | <cpm> | :) |
| [11:24:40] | <donblair[m]> | glad that chrowe is listening in too |
| [11:25:05] | <mstenta[m]> | ACTION waves at chrowe |
| [11:25:16] | <cpm> | And you! |
| [11:25:40] | <cpm> | So nice to see some traffic on this chan, , , so much potential. |
| [11:25:42] | <donblair[m]> | Cheerio! |
| [11:26:43] | <donblair[m]> | ACTION uploaded an image: dumpster.jpg (66KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/TaklsqIdJmKpSLxu... |
| [11:29:16] | <cpm> | NICE |
| [11:29:17] | <cpm> | ++ |
| [11:30:09] | <cpm> | mstenta[m], what is your back-end core tech for farmos.org ? |
| [11:30:18] | <cpm> | (the hosting bit) |
| [11:30:38] | <cpm> | ACTION is pondering scaling |
| [11:30:43] | <mstenta[m]> | I'm using Github pages |
| [11:30:51] | <mstenta[m]> | Because it's free - and zero maintenance :-) |
| [11:30:59] | <mstenta[m]> | Yes - not sure about scalability |
| [11:31:03] | <mstenta[m]> | No issues thusfar |
| [11:31:18] | <mstenta[m]> | Ultimately farmOS.org is just the documentation |
| [11:32:24] | <mstenta[m]> | The nice thing about farmOS.org's current setup is I can just call "mkdocs gh-deploy" and it will compile the Markdown to HTML, commit it to the gh-pages branch, and push to GH |
| [11:32:43] | <mstenta[m]> | Thus one command to push changes |
| [11:32:48] | <mstenta[m]> | I really like Mkdocs for that |
| [11:33:03] | <mstenta[m]> | It's got some limitations... but for what I'm using it for it's working great |
| [11:33:04] | <cpm> | nice! |
| [11:34:02] | <cpm> | github is awesome stuff. This is YSA (yet still another) great big change in the terrain that has taken place in my absence from the this world. :) |
| [11:34:26] | <mstenta[m]> | yes - it is great - not open source - but great |
| [11:34:35] | <mstenta[m]> | Haven't tried GitLab, but it's supposed to be good also |
| [11:34:45] | <mstenta[m]> | (and is open source) |
| [11:35:24] | <cpm> | yes, this shoemaker's kids go barefoot. :) |
| [11:36:44] | <mstenta[m]> | yep |
| [11:36:53] | <mstenta[m]> | Gotta pick your battles ;-) |
| [11:37:10] | <cpm> | I'm personally very excited (and I've no idea why really) about the godan ODI model. |
| [11:37:18] | <mstenta[m]> | Glad to see GitLab stepping up to pick that one |
| [11:38:00] | <mstenta[m]> | Yea GODAN's been doing a lot! |
| [11:38:07] | <mstenta[m]> | Great to see stuff coming together |
| [11:38:21] | <mstenta[m]> | I really feel like we're on the verge of some revolutions in ag data |
| [11:38:31] | <cpm> | yup. |
| [11:39:02] | <mstenta[m]> | Oh neat looks like @ch |
| [11:39:22] | <mstenta[m]> | Oh neat looks like chrowe and donblair are using GitLab for FIOT: https://gitlab.com/fiot |
| [11:39:48] | <cpm> | awesome |
| [11:42:01] | <donblair[m]> | My impression (in line with cpm's earlier points about security) is that there's a lot of awesome momentum around 'open data' and 'open source' in the ag world, but it's still early days regarding the governance structures around that tech. In my mind, that's one of the reason that this approach you're taking with FarmOS -- where it can be installed on someone's RPI on their farm, securely -- and not need to talk to |
| [11:42:02] | <donblair[m]> | the cloud -- is such a big deal. You're demonstrating the 'open' part, but also the 'secure', 'locally-governed' part ... the farmer has control |
| [11:42:39] | <cpm> | Yup. |
| [11:42:45] | <cpm> | This is sooooo crucial. |
| [11:42:55] | <mstenta[m]> | Yea - One thing I'd like to see more of is documentation to help through that process |
| [11:42:57] | <mstenta[m]> | Because like you said it's all possible |
| [11:43:33] | <mstenta[m]> | (cough cough pull requests to farmOS.org welcome cough) |
| [11:43:37] | <donblair[m]> | I like the idea of pursuing a similar model with the widgets / hardware ... I'd love to set up electronics production that is as locally-controlled as possible -- some sort of federated co-op for physical farm tool production, where there's a wide network of producers, consumers, and any surplus profit is distributed broadly (if the people in the network want to set it up that way) -- rather than having a single point of |
| [11:43:37] | <donblair[m]> | failure, or single point of profit |
| [11:43:41] | <mstenta[m]> | ;-) |
| [11:43:46] | <cpm> | I *want* folks to participate/contribute to the ODI/other things, but *ONLY* if they *WANT* to. IE, it's all locked up tight, until one permits sharing, and that sharing is clearly defined and locked. |
| [11:43:48] | <donblair[m]> | hahaha |
| [11:43:54] | <mstenta[m]> | Cool yea! |
| [11:44:15] | <mstenta[m]> | Is that what Dorn was talking about when he mentioned a "development coop"? |
| [11:44:59] | <donblair[m]> | @cpm -- yes, exactly -- up to the user, but defaults to 'locked' -- that's awesome |
| [11:45:20] | <donblair[m]> | @mstenta -- I think so! many conversations intertwining here |
| [11:45:49] | <cpm> | take the exact mirror opposite of the whole fb/google/etc model. IE, 'sharing' is *hard*. :) |
| [11:46:24] | <mstenta[m]> | donblair: yes always intertwining |
| [11:46:30] | <mstenta[m]> | :-) |
| [11:46:36] | <donblair[m]> | yes, exaaaactly |
| [11:46:37] | <mstenta[m]> | Ok I really need to get some code written... |
| [11:46:40] | <mstenta[m]> | But first... |
| [11:46:43] | <cpm> | indeed. I like to imagine Dorn's concept of a 21st century Grange |
| [11:46:45] | <mstenta[m]> | So... there's an android app for Riot? |
| [11:47:17] | <donblair[m]> | mstenta: yes, and it has worked really solidly for me re: VOIP |
| [11:47:33] | <mstenta[m]> | Awesome - installing now... |
| [11:47:46] | <mstenta[m]> | If this will give me notifications on my phone when someone talks in IRC, I'll be so happy |
| [11:48:15] | <donblair[m]> | @cpm -- yes, awesome -- i've been reading a bunch about the history of agricultural cooperatives, and it's amazing what sharing models have already been developed / are in existence -- I had no idea ... very inspiring |
| [11:48:45] | <donblair[m]> | mstenta: -- fingers crossed |
| [11:49:23] | <cpm> | donblair[m], yeah, Dorn does an awesome presentation on this |
| [11:51:38] | <mstenta[m]> | Hello from phone |
| [11:52:06] | <cpm> | Cool! |
| [11:52:14] | * mstenta has joined #farmos |
| [11:52:20] | <mstenta[m]> | SWEET! |
| [11:52:24] | <mstenta[m]> | I got that! |
| [11:52:48] | <cpm[m]> | am I 2 cpm? |
| [11:52:48] | <cpm> | nope |
| [11:52:49] | <mstenta[m]> | Oh man this is a game changer |
| [11:52:56] | <cpm> | Oh, yes I am. Interesting |
| [11:53:23] | <mstenta[m]> | You are both "cpm" and "cpm (IRC)" |
| [11:53:27] | <mstenta[m]> | The (IRC) one gets added automatically from the bridge integration |
| [11:53:34] | <cpm> | a bit surprised at this. |
| [11:53:35] | <cpm> | :) |
| [11:53:40] | <mstenta[m]> | And within IRC, everyone in matrix has an [m] at the end of their names |
| [11:54:19] | <cpm> | Sooo, , how in the heck do I connect my irc client (which I >heart<) to matrix, , , , hmmmmm |
| [11:57:07] | * mstenta has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| [11:57:13] | <mstenta[m]> | Well technically that's what you're doing right now, isn't it? :-) |
| [11:57:20] | <mstenta[m]> | But you mean to connect directly as a matrix.org user I think |
| [11:59:22] | <cpm> | no, my irc client is connected to freenode (my home, o my home), I'm using the webclient on matrix |
| [12:00:34] | <mstenta[m]> | oh. so... wait. "cpm (IRC)" is chatting through the riot.im web client? |
| [12:01:21] | <mstenta[m]> | ACTION is confused |
| [12:01:33] | <cpm> | oh, , no, , huh? No, umm, cpm[m] is on the riot.im web client |
| [12:01:45] | <cpm> | cpm[irc] is on freenode |
| [12:02:53] | <mstenta[m]> | ok that makes sense |
| [12:02:58] | <mstenta[m]> | i'm seeing all the chats coming from cpm "cpm (IRC)" |
| [12:03:25] | <cpm> | prolly because most of my 'chatting' is from the irc client. |
| [12:03:55] | <cpm[m]> | rather than this client |
| [12:16:21] | * trentf has quit (Quit: Leaving.) |
| [12:23:52] | <cpm> | hi farmBOT |
| [12:23:52] | <farmBOT> | ni hao |
| [12:24:56] | <cpm> | does anyone know of a better tool for mapping ethics logic than a big piece of paper and pens/pencils? |
| [12:58:51] | <mstenta[m]> | #fiot:matrix.org |
| [13:11:41] | * trentf has joined #farmos |
| [13:12:37] | <cpm> | good afternoon |
| [13:13:12] | <mstenta[m]> | Hello |
| [13:13:12] | <farmBOT> | what's up |
| [13:13:35] | <mstenta[m]> | Ah good ole farmBOT |
| [13:30:09] | <cpm> | I'm not bored. Honest. |
| [13:34:40] | <cpm> | i'm stuck in a recursion loop over building in 'ethical' sharing. |
| [13:34:41] | <cpm> | :) |
| [15:02:49] | * cpm has quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| [16:58:14] | * dornawcox[m] has joined #farmos |
| [16:58:48] | <dornawcox[m]> | Glad to join the room! |
| [17:04:56] | <mstenta[m]> | Hi @dornawcox:matrix.org ! Welcome to the unified farmOS chat room! :-D |
| [17:05:32] | <mstenta[m]> | I think IRC commands work here too... |
| [17:05:36] | <mstenta[m]> | farmBOT: log pointer? |
| [17:05:36] | <farmBOT> | http://farmier.com/bot/log/farmOS/2018-02-27#T24091 |
| [17:06:28] | <mstenta[m]> | Though there is a bit of a delay sometimes with IRC :-) |
| [17:19:34] | <dornawcox[m]> | Fantastic! |
| [18:07:27] | <dornawcox[m]> | Ok, so next step is linking Riot with Discourse forums! Have you taken a look at that yet? I have not had a chance l. |
| [18:10:40] | <mstenta[m]> | Nope I haven't - I think that would need to be done on David's end - he manages that forum. |
| [18:10:56] | <mstenta[m]> | Speaking of - it's currently not working :-/ |
| [18:15:10] | * sudokita[m] has joined #farmos |
| [18:37:49] | * samrose has joined #farmos |
| [18:39:03] | <samrose> | Is there any issue running farmos on php 7.2.x? |