IRC logs for #farmOS, 2017-12-27 (GMT)

2017-12-26
2017-12-28
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[08:27:51]<mstenta>farmBOT: log pointer?
[08:27:51]<farmBOT>http://farmier.com/bot/log/farmOS/2017-12-27#T22467
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[15:06:23]<permakai>Hello, anybody able to answer a question for me on Groups
[15:06:43]<mstenta>Hi permakai - sure what's up?
[15:07:35]<mstenta>permakai: Oops! I just realized when I replied to your email this morning, I replied to myself!
[15:07:35]<permakai>Hi Mike, just familiarising myself with the system and wonder what is the Group asset for? Can see many uses just wondered what your ideas on it were
[15:07:46]<mstenta>I just replied again and made sure it went to you... check your inbox. :-)
[15:07:55]<mstenta>Sorry about that :-)
[15:08:22]<mstenta>To paraphrase: Groups are for organizing assets into hierarchies, so you can work with them all at once
[15:08:46]<mstenta>For example, you can record a harvest/activity/observation log on an entire group
[15:08:54]<mstenta>It is also used in the new Grazing module to represent Herds
[15:09:28]<permakai>For example, we categorise our crops along the bio-intensive methoid: heavy feeders, carbon, and roots. Would groups be useful for that?
[15:09:36]<mstenta>I'll be adding some documentation to farmOS.org in the near future as well
[15:10:06]<mstenta>Hmm... you could do that...
[15:10:29]<mstenta>The only benefit would be it would allow you to add a log to the group instead of each individual
[15:10:48]<mstenta>And you could record changes in group membership over time, but I don't think that will really apply for plants
[15:11:00]<permakai>that is exactly what we want as we rotate the different types accross our beds annually.
[15:11:03]<mstenta>Those are the main use-cases for Groups right now
[15:11:16]<mstenta>Ok - then perhaps it would be useful for that!
[15:11:47]<permakai>bed 1 is carbon in year one, heavy feeders in year 2, etc. bed 2 is roots in one year, carbon in year 2, etc
[15:11:51]<mstenta>I tried to design the "Group" asset very generally - so that it could be used in creative new ways like that
[15:12:15]<mstenta>Ok cool - thinking that through...
[15:12:32]<permakai>crop rotation is a big thing for us as we are organic and it helps in pest control
[15:12:37]<mstenta>Yea ok... that could work really nicely actually
[15:12:58]<mstenta>so you would create your different groups: assign the plantings for the year to each group, and set the location of the group to the bed(s) for that year
[15:13:32]<mstenta>then, when the next year rolls around, you would create a new set of plantings (and archive the old ones), assigned to the same groups, and then "Move" the group to new bed(s)
[15:14:10]<mstenta>there are still some things i need to figure out with regards to "location" of assets in groups... so this will be a good test case to think those through for me
[15:14:36]<mstenta>ie: right now, Groups and there members can have separate locations
[15:14:44]<mstenta>their*
[15:15:03]<mstenta>but i think that would be ok for your use
[15:15:23]<permakai>moe like, assign beds 1+4+8+12+.. to carbon for year 2017, and bed 2+5+9+13+.. to HF, etc. then move crops to the beds depending on theior tyoe. Next year would rotate the beds and assign them to a different group
[15:15:28]<mstenta>you could potentially give the plantings a more specific location (ie: geometry drawn on the map showing where they are in the bed)
[15:15:49]<mstenta>ok gotcha - i think that would work the same
[15:16:30]<mstenta>you can give it a try... i would be curious to see what you come up with! and whether or not groups would help in that approach
[15:16:47]<permakai>our beds are static and we move crops in and out depending on the crop type that bed is for each year
[15:16:57]<mstenta>i would recommend learning how "Movements and location" of assets works in general: http://farmos.org/guide/location/
[15:17:10]<mstenta>ok
[15:17:12]<mstenta>that makes sense
[15:17:25]<mstenta>so at the very least, you will want to create areas for each bed
[15:17:52]<mstenta>and plantings for each crop each year
[15:18:21]<mstenta>and maybe groups for different type of plantings like you described...
[15:18:45]<mstenta>i say give it a try and see what you think! i'd love to hear what questions or hurdles you run into
[15:19:43]<permakai>Thanks, I really like the system and can see it being very useful for us. We tried using cropplanning by clayton carter but found it too prescriptive and couldnt adopt our situation
[15:20:24]<permakai>farmos is much more flexible - you have done a great job. We will take out a sub as we want to support what you are doing.
[15:20:26]<mstenta>Glad to hear it!
[15:20:29]<permakai>Are you on your own?
[15:20:49]<permakai>i.e. do you have ogthers helping you
[15:21:04]<mstenta>I've spoken with Clayton in the past - we talked about potentially working together - ideally I envision farmOS providing a more prescriptive system on top as an optional module (but still very flexible underneath)
[15:21:26]<mstenta>There is another system similar to Clayton's called FARM DATA
[15:21:30]<mstenta>Also very prescriptive
[15:21:47]<mstenta>The way I see it we are approaching the problem from two different sides: specific vs general
[15:22:10]<mstenta>I chose to start very general with farmOS, and add more specific/prescriptive options using general building blocks in the future
[15:22:29]<mstenta>It means it takes a longer amount of time to get something "useful", but in general allows for a lot more to be created I feel
[15:23:10]<mstenta>In general it has been me doing most of the development, but there have been a number of small contributions from people, and recently Stephen Woodbridge has been putting a lot of work into the new Grazing module - which is an optional add-on for farmOS
[15:23:28]<permakai>have looked at farm data - same issue. We are primarily an organic market garden and approach everything from our beds - beds are fixed and numbered and we move crops in and out. The bed is our growing unit.
[15:23:44]<mstenta>Ah ok -yea that makes sense
[15:23:54]<mstenta>A lot of market farms work that way\
[15:24:00]<mstenta>farmOS can handle that :-)
[15:24:30]<permakai>once i am up and running i'll try and make a few videos for market gardeners. Unfortunately in New Zealand we grow all year round so dont have much down time
[15:24:34]<mstenta>And I'm hoping to make it even easier in the future... with a bed-based crop planning module that I've been putting a lot of thought into
[15:24:47]<mstenta>Haha yea year round growing must be tough!
[15:25:08]<mstenta>Here in Northeast United States I have a good 8 months of cold weather to work on code :-)
[15:25:47]<permakai>i used to be an online developer and have some thoughts about crop planning - happy to share with you sometime. Have things like companiion planting, crop rotation, weeding schedule, etc. worked out
[15:25:58]<mstenta>Yes!
[15:26:01]<mstenta>That would be great!
[15:26:17]<mstenta>It would be great to organize a group discussion
[15:26:33]<mstenta>I know a lot of people who would like to take part in designing it I think
[15:27:45]<permakai>ok, i'll try and document it properly and send it to you, or probably start a google folder with Entity model, process diagrams so people can contribute to it. I'll send you link in a few weeks.
[15:28:43]<mstenta>that would be great!
[15:28:44]<mstenta>thanks!
[15:29:35]<permakai>ok, i hope to be in the hangout in January so see you then. Is it okay to use this IRC if I have more questions?
[15:29:59]<mstenta>great!
[15:30:04]<mstenta>yea I'm usually in this room
[15:30:17]<mstenta>i check the logs, so if i don't answer feel free to leave a message :-)
[15:30:58]<permakai>awesome - thanks for clearing that up. Chat later - its 9:30am here so time to work
[15:31:18]<mstenta>sounds good!
[15:31:19]<mstenta>take care!
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