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| [10:13:50] | <cpm> | Good Morning all.E |
| [10:13:54] | <cpm> | enjoying the snow? |
| [10:15:31] | <mstenta> | cpm: morning |
| [10:15:35] | <mstenta> | yea we're getting quite a bit here! |
| [10:15:42] | <mstenta> | about 4 inches so far |
| [10:15:45] | <cpm> | you're in NY? |
| [10:15:49] | <mstenta> | and it looks like the worst is yet to come |
| [10:15:54] | <mstenta> | nope, Connecticut |
| [10:16:04] | <cpm> | ahh, better still. :) |
| [10:16:27] | <mstenta> | yea - and my property is in a special little pocket that always seems to get more snow than even the immediate surroundings |
| [10:16:28] | <mstenta> | :-) |
| [10:17:04] | <cpm> | yeah, our tiny micro farm is the coldest spot around. |
| [10:17:12] | <cpm> | frost pocket |
| [10:19:09] | <cpm> | https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7643678,-77.828262,20z/data=!3m1!1e3 |
| [10:20:33] | <cpm> | that little clearing creates a chimney, pulls the cold air out of the woods. out in the fields and pastures, it'll be hovering around 0f, and be -5f right there. :) |
| [10:21:02] | <mstenta> | wow google maps shows forecast warnings now |
| [10:21:24] | <mstenta> | gotta write a module that does that in farmOS ;-) |
| [10:21:32] | <cpm> | danged google maps are too handy by far. |
| [10:22:40] | <cpm> | the mildly irritating bit is that all the OSM tools allow for nearly all the same goodies, but there is no borg-like dictator to pull it all together. :) |
| [10:23:22] | <mstenta> | mm haha yea |
| [10:25:32] | <cpm> | so, have you a few minutes to chat? |
| [10:27:55] | <mstenta> | cpm: sure what's up? |
| [10:28:20] | <cpm> | well, back to y/day, was inquring as to whether or not the hangouts were archived anywhere? |
| [10:28:43] | <mstenta> | oh yea... saw that... |
| [10:28:47] | <mstenta> | no they aren't unfortunately |
| [10:29:03] | <cpm> | ::nod:: |
| [10:29:03] | <mstenta> | in the beginning i was doing the "on air" hangouts which would be recorded and posted automatically to youtube |
| [10:29:11] | <mstenta> | i like having everything recorded myself |
| [10:29:19] | <mstenta> | but i was finding that not everyone does... |
| [10:29:25] | <cpm> | yeah, exactly. |
| [10:29:31] | <mstenta> | i think the calls were a bit more awkward because of the recorded aspect |
| [10:29:38] | <cpm> | farmers, , self determined folks, whodathunkit? |
| [10:29:39] | <cpm> | :) |
| [10:29:42] | <mstenta> | haha yup |
| [10:29:52] | <mstenta> | the unrecorded calls have been working great |
| [10:29:54] | <cpm> | I get it. That's not me, but I totally understand. |
| [10:30:07] | <mstenta> | maybe we could start doing something like minutes in a shared doc... |
| [10:30:27] | <cpm> | one fellow at PASA was expressing concern about the PA DCNR using his farmos to monitor his cattle getting into the creek, as a for instance. |
| [10:30:44] | <cpm> | but moving along. T |
| [10:30:54] | <mstenta> | oh yea? |
| [10:31:03] | <mstenta> | well that wouldn't be an issue unless he gave them access |
| [10:32:16] | <cpm> | there's a fellow, Matt Steinmann, , his partner is the farm manager for Dickenson College farm in Carlysle PA. They run a student farm where they actually supply a major portion of the food to campus. Very cool initiative, any Matt is one of the great tinkerers of the day, and he's developed a product called FarmDATA |
| [10:32:57] | <cpm> | https://farmdata.dickinson.edu/guest.php |
| [10:33:08] | <mstenta> | yea i actually met up with Matt at PASA! |
| [10:33:18] | <cpm> | Yeah, Matt is awesome. |
| [10:33:23] | <mstenta> | yea! |
| [10:33:31] | <mstenta> | we talked about potential collaborations |
| [10:33:40] | <mstenta> | see if we could merge the FARMDATA and farmOS efforts |
| [10:33:45] | <cpm> | and there was that fellow, , , umm, "John"? who was also working on a phone/tablet app? was on the call |
| [10:33:53] | <cpm> | Nice! |
| [10:33:54] | <cpm> | good! |
| [10:33:54] | <mstenta> | oh yea... Alex Smith? |
| [10:33:58] | <mstenta> | BeetClock |
| [10:33:59] | <cpm> | Oh, ya, Alex |
| [10:34:00] | <cpm> | yes. |
| [10:34:12] | <cpm> | So sorry I couldn't stay with the call, fascinating stuff. |
| [10:34:20] | <mstenta> | yea! very exciting if he joins in the calls more often! |
| [10:34:23] | <mstenta> | no worries |
| [10:34:28] | <mstenta> | it's informal :-) |
| [10:35:58] | <mstenta> | i'm not sure if you heard, but there was some very bad news recently... Tim (the developer who wrote FarmData who was working with Matt) lost a battle to pancreatic cancer shortly after PASA |
| [10:38:35] | <cpm> | No, I hadn't heard. I had heard that someone went down, but I didn't know them. |
| [10:38:58] | <cpm> | Anyway, |
| [10:39:32] | <cpm> | I imagine that there are folks (clearly) writing in parallel, farmers being the world's proto-hackers |
| [10:39:47] | <cpm> | I'm a bit of a github newbie |
| [10:40:17] | <cpm> | <granpa simpson> Why, back in my day, we used mailing lists </granpa simpson> |
| [10:40:28] | <mstenta> | yea that's partly why i got so interested in building farmOS myself - i've met a surprising number of farmers who know web dev! |
| [10:40:32] | <mstenta> | haha |
| [10:40:44] | <mstenta> | yea github has certainly streamlined some things |
| [10:40:46] | <cpm> | was pondering if there would be any utility in setting up the old-school mailing list tree |
| [10:40:59] | <cpm> | farmos-announce, farmos-devel, farmos-users |
| [10:41:18] | <mstenta> | potentially! i would need to get in the habit of using it... |
| [10:41:33] | <cpm> | I have a running mailman instance, looped through a properly valid MTA |
| [10:41:53] | <mstenta> | cool, well we could give it a try! |
| [10:42:00] | <cpm> | I used to host a few mailing lists, but they have kinda languished in the day of growing social media |
| [10:42:29] | <mstenta> | yea i guess that's the risk - no one uses it |
| [10:42:37] | <mstenta> | as it is, not many people use IRC ;-) |
| [10:42:39] | <cpm> | I hosted the biofuels mailing list for many years, until Keith died, and the list kinda faded to a couple of folks posting random news articles, no discussion. |
| [10:43:05] | <mstenta> | although i'm pretty happy to see 9 names in the IRC room right now! |
| [10:43:20] | <cpm> | I announced taking the list down 1st of the year, but I have thousands of subscribers I'm reluctant to abandon :) |
| [10:44:02] | <cpm> | Anyway, I can set this up, need your email, make you a list admin, and you may add folks. |
| [10:44:15] | <cpm> | irc is a great tool, been on freenode for decades myself |
| [10:44:31] | <mstenta> | looks like the yellow part is just about to hit |
| [10:44:31] | <mstenta> | https://radar.weather.gov/Conus/northeast_loop.php |
| [10:44:34] | <cpm> | but it's a bit of an old hackers tool these days. |
| [10:44:49] | <mstenta> | i wonder if we'll lose power |
| [10:44:57] | <mstenta> | cool! i'll PM you my email address |
| [10:44:59] | <cpm> | heh |
| [10:45:06] | <cpm> | indeed. |
| [10:45:52] | <cpm> | we have a transmission line crossing the back of the property, the lowest cable has been galloping for hours, I called it in, but the person who took the call didn't seem to have a clue what I was talking about, so I guess we'll see. :) |
| [10:46:06] | <mstenta> | ha |
| [10:46:24] | <mstenta> | two years ago a big ice dam formed on my roof, and when it finally fell off it pulled my service entry cable with it |
| [10:46:37] | <mstenta> | didn't disconnect, just laid it down on the ground |
| [10:47:19] | <mstenta> | electric company came and put in a temporary anchor to re-attach it, but i still need to repair the eave... and i'd like to move the entry point to somewhere that allows easier access to the roof for cleaning snow off |
| [10:47:41] | <mstenta> | really white-out conditions here right now... |
| [10:50:57] | <cpm> | ick |
| [10:51:02] | <cpm> | what kind of roof? |
| [10:51:07] | <cpm> | what's the pitch? |
| [10:51:25] | <mstenta> | asphault shingles... probably ~6/12 pitch |
| [10:51:33] | <mstenta> | maybe a little less |
| [10:51:39] | <cpm> | I spent a lot of time pondering ice dams, |
| [10:51:46] | <cpm> | I think I actually have them figured out |
| [10:51:59] | <cpm> | but of course that can only be done if you are renovating. |
| [10:52:08] | <cpm> | or have otherwise really good access under the roof |
| [10:52:13] | <mstenta> | but the power line runs parallel to the eave, so in order to rake the roof i would need to put myself in danger of electrocution |
| [10:52:22] | <cpm> | yipes! |
| [10:52:32] | <mstenta> | yea this is a very old house (1792/1830) |
| [10:52:35] | <cpm> | on a 6/12 pitch, I wouldn't expect you'd need to rake |
| [10:52:48] | <cpm> | unless, of course, it's a really bad thing, like ice dams |
| [10:53:01] | <mstenta> | the insulation is almost nonexistent in parts... so the heat causes the snow to melt and refreeze as ice dams |
| [10:53:08] | <cpm> | ya, that's the worse |
| [10:53:19] | <mstenta> | i find raking helps because it exposes the lower part where the ice dam forms, so it doesn't get insulated by the snow |
| [10:53:23] | <mstenta> | melts a lot quicker |
| [10:53:31] | <cpm> | ::nod:: |
| [10:53:33] | <mstenta> | but yea... ultimately i need to beef up the insulation and ventilation |
| [10:53:46] | <mstenta> | i did that on one of the rooves a year ago... made a nice difference |
| [10:54:12] | <mstenta> | the one with the electrical wire is more complicated so i haven't gotten around to it... maybe when i need to replace the shingles :-/ |
| [10:54:26] | <mstenta> | always a big list of things to do on old houses! |
| [10:55:24] | <cpm> | http://coldcomfortmicrofarm.blogspot.com/2012/06/solstice-update-on-insu... |
| [10:56:49] | <cpm> | about a 3rd the way down, you can see how I handled the roof insulation, and it does work *NO* ice dams, NONE. Now, to get the main cabin crib roof done. old steel, over 100 yrs old. so establishing ventilation is gonna be trickier and of course, there are no soffits, so estalishing airflow from the eaves still has me stumped, but, , |
| [10:57:43] | <mstenta> | WOW awesome! |
| [10:57:57] | <mstenta> | i actually did something similar with the rigid foam baffles between the rafters! |
| [10:58:06] | <mstenta> | not all the way up, just 48" |
| [10:58:26] | <mstenta> | the pitch on that roof is REALLY shallow... like 2/12 |
| [10:58:32] | <mstenta> | (mine i mean, not yours) |
| [10:58:53] | <mstenta> | great job! i'll read through this in more detail... |
| [10:59:11] | <cpm> | yeah, it's the foil faced that matters, radiant barrier |
| [10:59:24] | <mstenta> | i've always wanted to get a FLIR camera to see the infrared heat loss areas |
| [10:59:40] | <mstenta> | i think i saw someone built their own with a raspberry pi... |
| [11:00:52] | <cpm> | just 48 will help, the idea is to keep the eves at near ambient temps, as the roof heats up, creates a convection flow in an air gap, pulling the ambient temp air under the roof deck, cooling it, slowing the melting. The higher to the ridge you get, the cooler the roof deck stays. Snow will evap, doesn't have to 'melt'. in fact, melting is a bad thing. :) |
| [11:01:09] | <cpm> | http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo |
| [11:02:26] | <mstenta> | yea makes sense |
| [11:03:32] | <mstenta> | one of the tricky things with my roof is that it doesn't have a ridge - it meets up to a vertical wall at its top - and another vertical wall on one of the other sides |
| [11:03:42] | <mstenta> | so i could only add one gable vent |
| [11:03:50] | <mstenta> | and the other gable is sort of a dead air space |
| [11:04:06] | <mstenta> | but it's a lot better than before |
| [11:05:21] | <cpm> | yeah, our kitchen addition (about 1932, near as I can tell from the newspapers stuffed in the walls) has not clear ridge, roof butts into other roofs, etc. can't figure out what to do. :) |
| [11:05:39] | <mstenta> | "near as I can tell from the newspapers stuffed in the wall" hahaha |
| [11:05:52] | <mstenta> | i've seen that in a few places too |
| [11:06:10] | <mstenta> | yea... rooves just weren't designed with insulation/ventilation in mind back then |
| [11:06:29] | <mstenta> | most folks used wood stoves, is my guess, so heat was relatively cheap |
| [11:06:38] | <cpm> | well, figure the kitchen stove was running all the time, so cooling was more of an issue than heating, |
| [11:06:43] | <mstenta> | yea |
| [11:07:03] | <mstenta> | we've got a woodstove and it usually puts out more heat than we actually need most of the time |
| [11:07:05] | <cpm> | bringing a wood burning kitchen stove up from cold to usable is a real chore. |
| [11:07:34] | <cpm> | but once it's there, keeping it there is an art, but much easier. |
| [11:07:43] | <mstenta> | just went to your homepage... nice chicken door! |
| [11:07:47] | <cpm> | heh |
| [11:07:50] | <mstenta> | i've been meaning to do something like that on our coop |
| [11:08:50] | <cpm> | the pulletshut! It's a great door. Yeah, one could build something hackish themselves, but these guys pretty well figured it out and they earned their payday. :) |
| [11:09:14] | <mstenta> | nice! |
| [11:09:18] | <mstenta> | i'll check that out |
| [11:09:31] | <mstenta> | love the name haha |
| [11:10:25] | <cpm> | I'll confess that name did help reel me in. |
| [11:10:35] | <cpm> | very crever |
| [11:11:42] | <mstenta> | haha indeed |
| [11:11:58] | <cpm> | someday, I'll try and catch up on that blog, which I let languish after I spent an entire day at the local cafe updating it and blogger lost the post. |
| [11:12:15] | <mstenta> | i had an idea to make a raspberry pi sensor for my chicken coop... packaged inside an old cooking pot... and call it "chicken pot pi" |
| [11:12:30] | <cpm> | something happened in the blog-spot/blogger transition and about half my posts disappeared. |
| [11:12:38] | <cpm> | YES! |
| [11:12:51] | <mstenta> | haha |
| [11:12:55] | <mstenta> | maybe i'll put it on farmhack.com |
| [11:13:38] | <cpm> | that's almost a moral imperative now |
| [11:13:56] | <mstenta> | agreed :-) |
| [11:15:10] | <cpm> | So, in the fun little farmos/farmhack movie, there are all these cool little gizmos, the leaf scanner is the thing that makes my scientist friend's eyes pop |
| [11:15:20] | <cpm> | of course, commerical equip of that type is available |
| [11:15:31] | <cpm> | but is this thing for real? I can't find it anywhere. |
| [11:16:08] | <cpm> | Was also hoping there was some compiled data 'cheap-o sensors vs the real thing' from that implementation demonstrated |
| [11:16:46] | <cpm> | I've shown that movie to a few folks, in the natural resources world, and about 2/3rds the way through, lightbulbs start to go off |
| [11:17:22] | <cpm> | a "big thing" these days, is forested/multi-function riparian buffers |
| [11:17:40] | <cpm> | collecting and collating 'actionable' data is *hard*. |
| [11:18:21] | <mstenta> | phew sorry had to run out into the blizzard to re-anchor the tarp over my wood pile |
| [11:18:37] | <cpm> | being able to empirically demonstrate actual benefits to the private land owner would be a huge win |
| [11:18:48] | <mstenta> | cpm: yea! photosynq! http://photosynq.com/ |
| [11:19:22] | <mstenta> | that's awesome thanks for sharing the vid! |
| [11:19:32] | <mstenta> | and yea, the cheap sensor comparisons are really exciting... |
| [11:19:48] | <mstenta> | unfortunately the soil moisture sensors at Wolfe's Neck that we deployed stopped working :-( |
| [11:19:55] | <cpm> | OMG! |
| [11:20:28] | <mstenta> | but in fairness it was a bit of a rushed day that day... i think the issue was with the wiring and making sure they were insulated properly |
| [11:20:42] | <cpm> | yeah, I saw the pics and was really wondering about that. :)( |
| [11:20:59] | <cpm> | I was 'hrmmm, not too sure how long that's gonna last' |
| [11:20:59] | <mstenta> | the idea is still really exciting though... using cheap sensors and industry sensors side by side for comparison and callibration |
| [11:21:03] | <mstenta> | haha yea |
| [11:21:19] | <cpm> | yes, the idea is excellent! |
| [11:21:29] | <mstenta> | i wasn't involved much with the hardware side myself... i just made sure farmOS was pulling in the data properly |
| [11:24:15] | <cpm> | is the study published somewhere? documented? |
| [11:24:36] | <mstenta> | i don't think it is yet, no... |
| [11:24:47] | <mstenta> | i'll ask Dorn and Alex (the woman who was also setting up sensors) |
| [11:24:58] | <cpm> | ACTION nods |
| [11:25:12] | <mstenta> | her deployment was part of a larger research project |
| [11:25:23] | <mstenta> | and those sensors ARE still working :-) |
| [11:25:51] | <mstenta> | so actually ... the other cool thing that might come out of it is that we're working on getting the Campbell Scientific data logger connected to farmOS |
| [11:26:26] | <mstenta> | so all the industry standard sensors that are already set up can start streaming data to farmOS too |
| [11:26:40] | <mstenta> | because all of those are going through the Campbell datalogger rightn ow |
| [11:26:41] | <cpm> | data logging shouldn't be too tricky. All I've ever played with were weather stations, and the WX community has sorted most of that, even for Davis Inst. and similar. |
| [11:26:53] | <mstenta> | yea not too tricky at all |
| [11:27:06] | <mstenta> | in fact, the Campbell has a mini server included in it too |
| [11:27:26] | <mstenta> | so most of what we've been figuring out is getting interent access in the shed that it's installed in and connecting that through to farmOS :-) |
| [11:27:29] | <cpm> | but one does start to topple over into high-availability/high-reliability pretty quickly |
| [11:28:16] | <mstenta> | so windy! tarp blew off again brb |
| [11:28:39] | <cpm> | ya, should be tending to chores |
| [11:28:44] | <cpm> | ACTION tends to chores |
| [11:30:50] | <mstenta> | cpm: cool, talk to you later! |
| [11:31:11] | <cpm> | yah, thanks! |
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