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| [10:52:40] | <Colin__> | Hello! |
| [10:52:40] | <farmBOT> | salut |
| [10:52:40] | <farmBOT> | Hello! |
| [10:52:54] | <mstenta> | Colin__: hi |
| [10:53:32] | <Colin__> | I watched the Farm OS video, are the google hangouts still happening on second wednesdays? |
| [10:54:04] | <mstenta> | Colin__: yes - here's the schedule: http://farmos.org/community/monthly-call/ |
| [10:54:07] | <mstenta> | next one is next wed |
| [10:55:31] | <Colin__> | Okay cool, you must be the lead developer from the video? |
| [10:55:39] | <mstenta> | Colin__: yep :-) |
| [10:58:03] | <Colin__> | I really like what you're doing! I wanted to get in contact but I couldn't find your email |
| [10:58:09] | <Colin__> | But this works just as good |
| [10:58:33] | <mstenta> | Colin__: yea i'm usually in here :-) |
| [10:58:42] | <mstenta> | you can also email me via http://farmier.com/contact |
| [10:59:02] | <mstenta> | i try to keep my email out of the public sphere to avoid spam |
| [10:59:16] | <Colin__> | Understandable |
| [10:59:23] | <mstenta> | but i'll reply to that contact form and then you'll have it :-) |
| [10:59:27] | <mstenta> | it's also not very hard to guess it ;-) |
| [11:00:20] | <Colin__> | So from what I understand FarmOS works online or offline and integrates with Google Maps? |
| [11:00:41] | <Colin__> | And then there are similar drawing tools to Google Earth Pro |
| [11:01:10] | <mstenta> | yes for the most part... |
| [11:01:26] | <mstenta> | it is hosted on a web server... so if that server is on the internet, then you do need an internet connection to use it |
| [11:01:32] | <mstenta> | you can host it locally, though |
| [11:01:43] | <mstenta> | but Google Maps requires internet access to work... so you still need internet |
| [11:02:14] | <mstenta> | an yes - farmOS uses Openlayers for drawing areas |
| [11:02:22] | <mstenta> | here's a demo video (the same as in my NOFA talk): |
| [11:02:41] | <mstenta> | https://twitter.com/getfarmier/status/789808402130210816 |
| [11:04:14] | <mstenta> | there are some ideas kicking around for making some native apps for iOS/Android that can be used offline, and will sync data to farmOS when internet becomes available |
| [11:04:20] | <mstenta> | just need someone to make them :-) |
| [11:04:30] | <Colin__> | Have you encountered any limits to using the google stuff? |
| [11:04:57] | <mstenta> | Colin__: yes - svenn is in Norway and finds that Google's maps can be off by over 10 meters in accuracy |
| [11:04:57] | <Colin__> | I used to use Google Earth Pro exclusively for GIS but then reached a point where I coudln't do some things I wanted to |
| [11:05:12] | <Colin__> | 10 meters, yikes! |
| [11:05:16] | <Colin__> | =0 |
| [11:05:20] | <mstenta> | so recently he and i put together a module that uses Norway's national mapping service |
| [11:05:32] | <mstenta> | http://github.com/farmOS/farm_map_kartverket |
| [11:06:04] | <mstenta> | farmOS can be extended with modules... Google Maps is the default right now, but it doesn't have to be |
| [11:06:24] | <mstenta> | Colin__: what limitations did you run into with Google Earth Pro? |
| [11:06:25] | <Colin__> | Ok then here is the interesting part |
| [11:06:43] | <Colin__> | Yes the limits were overlays |
| [11:06:49] | <Colin__> | and datums |
| [11:06:53] | <Colin__> | for example |
| [11:07:05] | <Colin__> | As you probably know GEP works only in WGS84 |
| [11:07:17] | <mstenta> | yes |
| [11:07:26] | <Colin__> | I had orthoimagery from the State of CT that was in NAD83 |
| [11:07:38] | <mstenta> | ok |
| [11:07:50] | <mstenta> | yea... so Openlayers does support using different projections |
| [11:07:51] | <Colin__> | so if I put down the overlays I would have visual information but lose other information in the Geotiff |
| [11:07:57] | <mstenta> | but i haven't played around with it much yet |
| [11:08:09] | <mstenta> | farmOS uses WGS84 currently |
| [11:08:18] | <Colin__> | ok cool |
| [11:08:26] | <mstenta> | i'd be very interested to explore that with you though |
| [11:08:29] | <mstenta> | it would be a good test case |
| [11:08:36] | <Colin__> | and the modules are build with Drupal? |
| [11:08:46] | <mstenta> | it's very important to me that farmOS can handle different needs like that |
| [11:08:50] | <mstenta> | yep - Drupal modules |
| [11:08:52] | <Colin__> | Ioh absolutely |
| [11:09:27] | <mstenta> | (side note: are you in CT? i am in Storrs) |
| [11:10:00] | <Colin__> | I'm planning on being around Bethlehem for a lot of Nov and potentially Dec |
| [11:10:14] | <Colin__> | I left my job recently and working on next steps |
| [11:10:25] | <Colin__> | Unfulfillment and all that jazz |
| [11:11:19] | <mstenta> | cool! so i'm on the eastern side of the state |
| [11:11:24] | <mstenta> | closer to RI |
| [11:12:00] | <Colin__> | oh yeah I just looked it up, I also live in Westfield, MA which is closer thatn Bethlehem |
| [11:12:10] | <mstenta> | ok |
| [11:12:21] | <Colin__> | But I do most of my GIS ereseach and learning at Sun One Organic Farm in Bethlehem, CT |
| [11:12:32] | <Colin__> | Are you familiar with QGIS at all? |
| [11:12:35] | <mstenta> | ok awesome |
| [11:13:13] | <Colin__> | Btw state of CT is about to release 3" orthoimagery of the whole state rolling out the next 4 wks |
| [11:13:21] | <mstenta> | no, i'm coming into GIS from more of the web-dev side of things, starting with Openlayers |
| [11:13:26] | <mstenta> | oh really?? |
| [11:13:38] | <Colin__> | yeah dude I'm stoked |
| [11:13:52] | <mstenta> | wow! will it be avaialble via a web API, do you know? |
| [11:14:49] | <Colin__> | The formats available from 2012 were Geotiff and MRSID |
| [11:14:56] | <Colin__> | so those are guaranteed I bet |
| [11:15:29] | <Colin__> | So I imagine you could use MRSID since it is a database |
| [11:15:58] | <Colin__> | But it is proprietary |
| [11:16:02] | <Colin__> | so theres that |
| [11:16:30] | <mstenta> | ok |
| [11:16:37] | <Colin__> | http://www.cteco.uconn.edu/Flight2016/index.htm |
| [11:17:09] | <Colin__> | Well I suppose its a good thing because I'm into QGIS trying to learn dev' |
| [11:17:20] | <Colin__> | Been learning Python at the moment |
| [11:17:24] | <mstenta> | nice |
| [11:17:37] | <mstenta> | i like python - i've only played around with it a little |
| [11:17:39] | <mstenta> | Drupal is all PHP |
| [11:18:07] | <Colin__> | oh really? |
| [11:18:19] | <Colin__> | would it be hard ot make a module? |
| [11:22:08] | <mstenta> | for the CT ortho imagery? |
| [11:22:14] | <mstenta> | that would be a bit more complicated, yes... |
| [11:22:27] | <mstenta> | because it would require hosting the GeoTiff imagery somewhere first |
| [11:22:57] | <mstenta> | all the map layers that farmOS module include currently are essentialyl just pulling in tiles from public hosted map servers |
| [11:23:52] | <mstenta> | i'm considering offering some map hosting services through Farmier eventually... |
| [11:24:27] | <mstenta> | Openlayers may be able to load GeoTiff images directly, but I have a feeling it would not be very performant |
| [11:24:34] | <mstenta> | i've never tried it though |
| [11:31:45] | <Colin__> | Ok I see |
| [11:32:25] | <mstenta> | Colin__: oh actually... it sounds like maybe they will provide a hosted version... |
| [11:32:29] | <mstenta> | "Once the data are completed and delivered (beginning of 2017), they will be processed for hosting on CT ECO, including ortho imagery and bare earth elevation image services, ..." |
| [11:32:45] | <mstenta> | it doesn't specifically say what that means... |
| [11:32:54] | <Colin__> | So with web based things everything has to be hosted to be used |
| [11:32:58] | <mstenta> | but it sounds like that is a separate offering from the Geotiff download |
| [11:33:33] | <Colin__> | Maybe thats what they mean by hosting, like for download |
| [11:34:06] | <mstenta> | Colin__: for the most part yes - farmOS is essentially a website, running on a web server, so in order for it to access anything (like image files) they need to either be hosted on the same server, or on another server that it can access |
| [11:34:52] | <Colin__> | What made you want to develop FarmOS? |
| [11:35:03] | <mstenta> | but, it's possible to run a web server on your local computer too... so that could be a way of including large geotiff files |
| [11:35:15] | <mstenta> | i use it for my own record keeping |
| [11:35:28] | <Colin__> | Do you farm in Storrs? |
| [11:35:35] | <mstenta> | and i just really love the whole idea of it! and that nothing like it existed |
| [11:35:49] | <mstenta> | i do - but not commercially yet |
| [11:36:28] | <mstenta> | my wife and i bought a house with a little land a few years back and have been slowly cleaning it up - broke the first sizeable land last fall |
| [11:37:33] | <mstenta> | i've worked on a few commercial farms in the past, which informed a lot of farmOS's design |
| [11:38:47] | <mstenta> | i have a mild obsession with documenting |
| [11:38:58] | <mstenta> | and wanted a place to organize it all, and plan future stuff too |
| [11:39:22] | <Colin__> | haha Im right there with you on the obsession aspect |
| [11:39:54] | <Colin__> | I'm trying to apply the same stuff to eventually make something like FarmOS but for permaculture |
| [11:40:51] | <mstenta> | Colin__: very cool |
| [11:41:11] | <mstenta> | farmOS can be used for permaculture too, if you ask me! |
| [11:41:42] | <mstenta> | certainly nothing about it excludes the possibiltiy of using it for permaculture record keeping |
| [11:42:08] | <mstenta> | a lot of the stuff i use it for at my place is in that vein |
| [11:43:06] | <Colin__> | Yeah so I was thinking that there was a way I could contribute to the development |
| [11:43:17] | <mstenta> | that would be great! |
| [11:43:39] | <mstenta> | i'm hoping to write up some better documentation soon to help with that |
| [11:44:08] | <mstenta> | we just recently made a Docker image, and some instructions for setting up a local development site with Docker |
| [11:44:14] | <mstenta> | http://farmOS.org/development/docker |
| [11:47:22] | <mstenta> | the Docker instructions will get you up and running with a complete farmOS codebase and site on your local computer |
| [11:47:33] | <Colin__> | would you recommend to do this on Ubuntu? |
| [11:47:35] | <mstenta> | and check out all the various git repositories so you can start developing |
| [11:47:38] | <Colin__> | rather than windows? |
| [11:47:56] | <mstenta> | i use Ubuntu - so yes I would recommend that - but only because that's all i can provide help with ;-) |
| [11:48:17] | <mstenta> | it *should* work on Windows - but as far as i know it hasn't been tested |
| [11:49:21] | <Colin__> | I've been hearing that Unix is a better envionment to develop in anyway |
| [11:49:46] | <Colin__> | I've ran into roadblocks trying to to PyQgis on Windows |
| [11:49:54] | <Colin__> | just random stuff doesnt work |
| [11:50:01] | <Colin__> | even if everything is in place |
| [11:50:37] | <Colin__> | I'm still new to the whole process so Idk what I can help with exactly |
| [11:51:06] | <Colin__> | Develpment is really interesting to me but It's all still fairly new |
| [11:51:25] | <Colin__> | And if Im going to get a GIS job I want to learn it absolutely |
| [11:52:08] | <mstenta> | i might not be the best person to ask, but i definitely have the sense that most development (for the web especially) is easier on *nix |
| [11:52:20] | <mstenta> | most web servers are *nix |
| [11:53:08] | <mstenta> | yea no worries! it would be great to have any help! |
| [11:53:25] | <Colin__> | Ok..so I have a github |
| [11:53:31] | <mstenta> | cool, what is your username? |
| [11:53:53] | <Colin__> | ColinFontaine |
| [11:54:16] | <mstenta> | cool - followed you |
| [11:55:21] | <Colin__> | How did you find yourself in development? |
| [11:55:27] | <Colin__> | Followd you back! |
| [11:55:44] | <mstenta> | i got hooked at a young age |
| [11:55:48] | <mstenta> | with website development |
| [11:56:02] | <mstenta> | that naturally led me into PHP and then Drupal |
| [11:56:20] | <Colin__> | Like highschool? |
| [11:56:34] | <mstenta> | along with some other stuff mixed in... C++, IDL, python, a few other things |
| [11:56:46] | <mstenta> | uh... yea i think so, maybe a bit before |
| [11:56:58] | <mstenta> | AOL had a web page maker app |
| [11:57:02] | <mstenta> | :-) |
| [11:57:47] | <mstenta> | learned HTML, CSS, Javascript and just went from there |
| [11:58:02] | <Colin__> | Damn I feel like I'm a late bloomer haha |
| [11:58:14] | <mstenta> | nah never too late to learn :-) |
| [11:59:04] | <mstenta> | my grandma and aunts did/do programming, so i got introduced early |
| [11:59:16] | <Colin__> | Oh I see |
| [11:59:17] | <Colin__> | cool |
| [11:59:30] | <mstenta> | (grandma used to use computers that were programmed with punchcards!) |
| [11:59:43] | <Colin__> | Thats wild |
| [12:00:00] | <Colin__> | But Im sure that lead her to have a pretty good understanding about how they worked |
| [12:00:40] | <mstenta> | yea she had a TI-99 computer when it came out, and eventually gave that to me |
| [12:00:54] | <mstenta> | i mostly played the games, but it also had BASIC so i learned some of that |
| [12:01:06] | <mstenta> | but yea it wasn't until we got internet that i really got interested... |
| [12:01:31] | <Colin__> | I feel like thats what I should really focus on, web development and such |
| [12:01:31] | <mstenta> | being able to make things that everyone in the world could see... that's what was exciting to me |
| [12:01:54] | <mstenta> | yea web dev isn't going away anytime soon, that's for sure! |
| [12:01:59] | <mstenta> | and there's a lot of demand for devs |
| [12:02:26] | <Colin__> | Yeah its pretty hot, and for GIS as well |
| [12:03:18] | <Colin__> | There is this cool library called Leaflet which is javascript and used for interactive maps |
| [12:03:30] | <mstenta> | yea definitely - and the OSGeo stuff is really cool - all open source |
| [12:03:39] | <mstenta> | yea, i'm familiar with Leaflet |
| [12:03:55] | <mstenta> | it is essentially an alternative to Openlayers |
| [12:04:25] | <mstenta> | i gave some thought to switching to Leaflet from Openlayers when farmOS was upgrading from Openlayers 2 to Openlayers 3 |
| [12:04:28] | <Colin__> | What is the differenece |
| [12:04:54] | <mstenta> | openlayers has been around longer, and is more mature |
| [12:05:04] | <mstenta> | but leaflet seems to be growing strong! |
| [12:05:11] | <mstenta> | definitely gonna keep my eye on it |
| [12:05:29] | <mstenta> | right now, Openlayers provided more of the things farmOS needed out of the box |
| [12:05:59] | <mstenta> | and the Drupal Openlayers module provides a ton of UI for setting up OL maps without writing any code - which I felt was good for the farmOS community - make it easier to get non-devs involved |
| [12:06:29] | <mstenta> | Leaflet is a smaller library, and maybe faster because of that |
| [12:07:05] | <mstenta> | that's about the extent of my knowledge, though - and some of that is a few months dated by now |
| [12:09:06] | <mstenta> | so i'm curious about the project issues you had... |
| [12:09:30] | <mstenta> | projection* |
| [12:09:48] | <mstenta> | were you finding that things were not showing in the right place in Google Maps? |
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| [12:31:11] | <Colin__> | Well since it's all WGS84 you'd have to find a way to convert any non WGS84 to make it work |
| [12:32:05] | <Colin__> | And I was using a survey to log in boundaries of the property and it was all done in NAD83 |
| [12:32:14] | <Colin__> | so I'd have to convert every point |
| [12:32:29] | <Colin__> | and then I coudlnt put LiDAR on etc |
| [12:32:34] | <Colin__> | only as photo overlays |
| [12:32:46] | <Colin__> | but missing all the elevaton data |
| [12:32:54] | <Colin__> | with QGIS im able to keep all the data |
| [12:33:03] | <Colin__> | and then convert to kml if I want to use GEP |
| [12:33:38] | <Colin__> | Also I can export to svg in Qgis |
| [12:34:51] | <Colin__> | Like anything else it's all about how you use it, but you're right there are some real accuracy issues with Google at the moment |
| [12:35:33] | <Colin__> | I didn't think that the were going to improve their mapping products as readily either Im not sure they have even updated Earth for awhile |
| [12:35:59] | <Colin__> | QGIS releases versions so fast I don't even believe it |
| [12:54:22] | <svenn> | I use qgis to organize my gps tracks from the tractor. |
| [12:54:42] | <svenn> | Now I am planning central heating system with qgis and qcad/librecad |
| [12:54:56] | <svenn> | it rocks |
| [12:55:35] | <mstenta> | svenn and Colin__ - it might be nice to add an easier way to export shapes from farmOS so they can be used in qgis |
| [12:55:54] | <mstenta> | can qgis import WKT? |
| [12:56:17] | <svenn> | just checking |
| [12:56:23] | <mstenta> | looks like it can with QuickWKT plugin: http://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/13270/visualising-wkt-geometry-st... |
| [12:56:40] | <svenn> | qgis is a hog to start |
| [12:57:27] | <mstenta> | ultimately, the goal of farmOS is not to be a replacement for desktop gis software, so we should just focus on making it easy to go back and forth between the two for different purposes |
| [12:58:23] | <mstenta> | svenn and Colin__ - gotta go for a bit... doctor's appointment for the baby... talk to you later |
| [12:58:36] | <svenn> | see you |
| [13:04:09] | <svenn> | thanks for pointing out that it is WKT format. I was looking for that name. Makes it easier to move things from qgis to farmos, as it seems that qgis also export to wkt. |
| [13:26:49] | <Colin__> | Hi Svenn |
| [13:27:37] | <Colin__> | What kind of GPS are you putting on the tractor> |
| [13:27:42] | <Colin__> | ? |
| [13:28:02] | <svenn> | Usin a John Deere SF300 with a display called Farmnavigator G7 |
| [13:28:28] | <svenn> | It is a plain egnos/waas antenna |
| [13:29:05] | <svenn> | so it is not RTK quality, but I usually have good results in the fields when spraying fertilizer and pesticides |
| [13:29:38] | <svenn> | As a part of my documentation, I want to upload gps tracks to farmos |
| [13:30:17] | <svenn> | mstenta put one of my tracks on his video presentation |
| [13:31:01] | <svenn> | He has to do some work to allow for more than one type of chemical applied in the tank at once in a field input. |
| [13:32:07] | <Colin__> | I've heard of RTK, some guys in Iowa were using that and Drone Surveys to create swales with bulldozers |
| [13:32:15] | <Colin__> | pretty cool stuff |
| [13:32:48] | <Colin__> | How long have you been using FarmOS? |
| [13:33:12] | <svenn> | I have been using it more off than on since this spring. |
| [13:33:31] | <svenn> | The issue with google maps was a killer |
| [13:34:07] | <svenn> | see for yourself: bjerkem.de/farmos user: guest passwd: Guest1234 |
| [13:34:47] | <svenn> | turn off the map overlays so you get the original google map background and look at how the field perimeters miss the terrain |
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| [13:38:08] | <svenn> | you may have to go here to log in: http://bjerkem.de/farmos/user |
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