| [20:14:45] | * JustTB has quit (Quit: Leaving.) |
| [20:23:03] | * kadaan is now known as kadaan_ |
| [22:03:22] | * kadaan_ is now known as kadaan |
| [22:50:37] | * kadaan has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| [02:37:29] | * kadaan has joined #farmos |
| [04:10:40] | * JustTB has joined #farmos |
| [04:29:28] | * mstenta has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| [05:04:11] | <kadaan> | @mstenta Another one to consider a comparison against is: https://farmbrite.com |
| [05:07:34] | <JustTB> | btw. I would like to help, but at the moment I'm pretty full with the project here .. hopefully the next two weeks are more free. |
| [05:08:37] | <JustTB> | we still have farmos in mind ... and want to try that here .. |
| [05:09:09] | <JustTB> | to many people are coming and going at the moment |
| [05:10:12] | <svenn> | anything .com is freaking me out. |
| [05:10:32] | <svenn> | anything not self-hostable is freaking me out |
| [05:24:30] | * kadaan has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| [09:38:55] | * Kadaan has joined #farmos |
| [11:48:57] | * Kadaan has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| [12:04:50] | * kadaan has joined #farmos |
| [12:09:30] | <kadaan> | @svenn: No worries here about that. Just as long as I can get my data in and out in a generic way. |
| [12:11:10] | <kadaan> | @JustTB: If your Drupal experience is better than mine, you might be more help in the short term. I've been able to make a number of changes for the 7.x version, but the 8.x version is just not quite there enough for me to help. Maybe when @mstenta gets more time we can really get the move the 8.x focussed. |
| [12:13:27] | * kadaan has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) |
| [13:23:47] | * mstenta has joined #farmos |
| [15:55:15] | * kadaan has joined #farmos |
| [16:38:41] | <mstenta> | kadaan: hi! |
| [16:38:47] | <kadaan> | Hey |
| [16:38:47] | <farmBOT> | hello |
| [16:38:57] | <kadaan> | How's the farm hand doing? |
| [16:39:20] | <mstenta> | he's doing well! :-) |
| [16:39:23] | <mstenta> | eating now |
| [16:39:47] | <mstenta> | regarding COG Pro - I can't really speak to it - I haven't used that |
| [16:39:57] | <mstenta> | i've heard it tho - and FarmBrite |
| [16:40:16] | <kadaan> | They all look like drupal apps now... |
| [16:40:20] | <mstenta> | i guess the obvious difference is that farmOS is open source, you can host locally, and modify it yourself |
| [16:40:26] | <kadaan> | Can't tell for sure. |
| [16:40:40] | <mstenta> | hmm could be |
| [16:40:51] | <kadaan> | I really like that. As it means there is no data lock in. |
| [16:41:00] | <mstenta> | i remember looking at one that was using the same theme (Bootstrap) |
| [16:41:04] | <mstenta> | so it looked a lot like farmOS :-) |
| [16:41:36] | <kadaan> | COG Pro is in a lot of the farm magazines. |
| [16:41:42] | <mstenta> | re: farmOS 7.x-1.x vs 8.x-2.x - yea i understand that it's a tough time, especially since you're jumping in with a lot of interest in helping out |
| [16:41:47] | <kadaan> | For instance: Growing for Market. |
| [16:42:15] | <mstenta> | the way i see it - we should continue developing 7.x-1.x as long as we need to |
| [16:42:26] | <mstenta> | so i would love to keep you involved in those efforts if you're interested |
| [16:42:58] | <mstenta> | sure we'll need to redo for 8.x-2.x, but that's the same for everything |
| [16:43:11] | <mstenta> | and i would like to have some time for 8.x-2.x - i don't want to rush it |
| [16:43:17] | <kadaan> | Sure. I'd love to. Just want to be sure that we don't unnecessarily delay 8.x. |
| [16:43:18] | <mstenta> | because it is also an opportunity to rethink some things |
| [16:43:19] | <kadaan> | Make sense. |
| [16:43:31] | <mstenta> | yea definitely - it won't delay 8.x |
| [16:43:53] | <kadaan> | You should peak at COG Pro as it slates itself as tracking the info needed for Organic Certification. |
| [16:44:03] | <mstenta> | it would be great to talk through some of my ideas for 8.x with you also |
| [16:44:07] | <mstenta> | WHILE we continue working on 7.x |
| [16:44:15] | <mstenta> | to help validate some of the things i've been thinking |
| [16:44:17] | <kadaan> | That would be fine. |
| [16:44:29] | <kadaan> | I'm available most evenings or mornings. |
| [16:44:30] | <mstenta> | yea, do you have an account on COG? love to hear your thoughts |
| [16:44:42] | <kadaan> | They have a "free" trial account. |
| [16:44:49] | <mstenta> | cool - we should find a good pattern and keep the balls rolling |
| [16:45:10] | <mstenta> | one thing i've been thinking about... |
| [16:45:15] | <kadaan> | I don't really like the way COG Pro is styled like a notebook. |
| [16:45:26] | <kadaan> | https://cog-pro.com |
| [16:45:35] | <kadaan> | You can just login with the guest account that is pre-populated. |
| [16:46:07] | <mstenta> | oh yea - i remember looking at this a while back |
| [16:46:27] | <mstenta> | for what it's worth, my friend Dorn is using farmOS for his organic certification records in New Hampshire |
| [16:46:38] | <mstenta> | for veggies anyway |
| [16:47:10] | <mstenta> | i spent some time a while back pouring over the organic cert recordkeeping example forms that ATTRA provides |
| [16:47:13] | <kadaan> | How is he getting the data back out for the reports? |
| [16:47:31] | <kadaan> | Cool. From what I could tell most of the stuff needed is there. |
| [16:47:42] | <kadaan> | Just not the exports or reports. |
| [16:48:24] | <mstenta> | his certifying agent just wants PDFs, so he was able to "Print" the pages to PDF that they wanted |
| [16:48:33] | <mstenta> | along with some screenshots i think |
| [16:48:50] | <kadaan> | That is nice. |
| [16:48:54] | <mstenta> | the thing is... every certifying agency wants different things |
| [16:49:04] | <mstenta> | but if we can hit most of the common requirements, i think we'll be in good shape |
| [16:49:33] | <mstenta> | and over time, hopefully certifying agencies will start to recognize the farmOS formats, and allow them for recordkeeping more easily |
| [16:49:50] | <mstenta> | are you certified? |
| [16:50:53] | <mstenta> | one thing we should definitely talk about... |
| [16:50:57] | <mstenta> | is process |
| [16:51:01] | <kadaan> | Nope... |
| [16:51:09] | <kadaan> | We are just setting up our farm |
| [16:51:45] | <mstenta> | i was thinking about it in the car the other day... i think i'm going to write up a "farmOS Coding Standards" document that outlines generally HOW i go about developing, committing, etc - so that everyone can be on the same page and work similarly |
| [16:52:03] | <mstenta> | that will make it a lot easier for me to review and commit changes from others - if we're all following the same patterns |
| [16:52:21] | <kadaan> | That would be great. |
| [16:52:25] | <mstenta> | for example, as a first step farmOS follows all the same coding standards as drupal |
| [16:52:39] | <mstenta> | https://www.drupal.org/docs/develop/standards |
| [16:52:52] | <mstenta> | so we could also document some standard practices on top of that |
| [16:52:55] | <kadaan> | I'd rather not spin my wheels by having to keep changing the PRs to meet requirements I don't know about. |
| [16:52:58] | <mstenta> | it's all about project management :-) |
| [16:53:07] | <mstenta> | yea definitely - i wouldn't want that either |
| [16:53:22] | <mstenta> | oh - so i made some good progress on the docker thing the other night... at like 3am :-) |
| [16:53:44] | <mstenta> | once i get that finished, i'm going to get your changes pulled in to review them |
| [16:53:47] | <mstenta> | sorry it's been taking a while |
| [16:53:57] | <mstenta> | you jumped into this at a VERY busy time in my life haha :-) |
| [16:53:58] | <kadaan> | You are totally going to get it done because your kid won't let you sleep. |
| [16:54:04] | <mstenta> | haha |
| [16:54:14] | <mstenta> | yea i might work on it a bit now before dinner - he's asleep |
| [16:54:36] | <kadaan> | No problem. I looked at farmOS a while ago, but we weren't close to having our property then. |
| [16:54:40] | <mstenta> | i also have a Farmier user who wants to import their local SQL database into Farmier, though, so I gotta get that done too |
| [16:55:00] | <mstenta> | i'm just doing a manual SQL import for that one |
| [16:55:11] | <mstenta> | one-time thing to help them get up and running in Farmier |
| [16:55:15] | <kadaan> | Nice. Is there any easy way to import the SQL, or will you do it manually. |
| [16:55:16] | <kadaan> | :) |
| [16:55:22] | <mstenta> | i'll do this one manually |
| [16:55:25] | <kadaan> | I assume they were hosting locally. |
| [16:55:30] | <mstenta> | yup |
| [16:55:41] | <mstenta> | i definitely want to make an easy way to move from a local install to Farmier |
| [16:55:43] | <kadaan> | That's nice. The upsell. |
| [16:56:06] | <mstenta> | but - a straight SQL import isn't really feasible, because there are security implications to that |
| [16:56:14] | <kadaan> | In my world, I would export all as avro |
| [16:56:20] | <mstenta> | avro? |
| [16:56:51] | <kadaan> | It is a rich, schematized data format, like thrift, protocol buffers, etc. |
| [16:57:00] | <kadaan> | json compatible. |
| [16:57:01] | <mstenta> | huh never heard of it |
| [16:57:18] | <kadaan> | http://avro.apache.org/docs/current/ |
| [16:57:48] | <kadaan> | Pretty common in big data. |
| [16:58:42] | <kadaan> | But I could imagine just exporting a ZIP with all the tables in it. |
| [16:58:53] | <kadaan> | And allowing the ZIP to be imported into Farmier. |
| [17:00:30] | <mstenta> | oh cool - under that Apache umbrella? |
| [17:00:40] | <kadaan> | Yup |
| [17:00:47] | <mstenta> | how do you export from SQL to avro? |
| [17:01:21] | <mstenta> | there are some other difficulties with importing SQL directly into farmier... |
| [17:01:25] | <kadaan> | I don't know if ther are PHP bindings though. |
| [17:01:36] | <mstenta> | if any customizations were made locally, they might not match up with the "stock" farmOS that Farmier hosts |
| [17:01:42] | <kadaan> | True. |
| [17:02:04] | <mstenta> | so i think the easiest option is to just build the proper import/export features in farmOS itself |
| [17:02:15] | <kadaan> | I don't know of a built-in way to export avro from sql. |
| [17:02:29] | <kadaan> | But json wold be fine. |
| [17:02:45] | <mstenta> | theoretically, we only really need a JSON importer... because you can already get JSON of all your farm entities via the restws module |
| [17:02:50] | <kadaan> | And the export could capture the relationshitpty easilty that way. |
| [17:03:08] | <kadaan> | In 8.x there is the json importer, right? |
| [17:05:28] | <mstenta> | yea exactly |
| [17:05:31] | <mstenta> | there might be |
| [17:05:41] | <mstenta> | so generally, in Drupal 7, Features is the best importer option |
| [17:05:45] | <mstenta> | sorry... not Features |
| [17:05:46] | <mstenta> | Feeds |
| [17:05:49] | <mstenta> | (tired) :-) |
| [17:06:20] | <mstenta> | it might be better for our purposes to just write a custom importer though |
| [17:06:25] | <mstenta> | specific to farmOS entity types |
| [17:06:50] | <kadaan> | Yeah. I had looked at feeds. |
| [17:07:05] | <kadaan> | I was hoping to get CSV export and import. |
| [17:07:25] | <kadaan> | JSON would be really good too. |
| [17:08:07] | <kadaan> | It would be really nice if there was some way that modules would end up getting this stuff for "free". |
| [17:08:26] | <mstenta> | hmm so you should be able to just do: http://[fqdn]/farm_asset.json |
| [17:08:31] | <mstenta> | and /log.json |
| [17:08:34] | <mstenta> | to get json of all entities |
| [17:08:47] | <mstenta> | but it seems that isn't working... i'm getting an access denied |
| [17:08:51] | <mstenta> | hmm i'll need to debug that |
| [17:08:52] | <mstenta> | brb |
| [17:08:56] | <kadaan> | k |
| [17:09:10] | <kadaan> | That would be another really useful piece of info. |
| [17:09:25] | <kadaan> | What dev tools do you use, how are you debugging, etc. |
| [17:27:21] | <mstenta> | yea definitely |
| [17:27:25] | <mstenta> | i use PHPStorm |
| [17:27:31] | <mstenta> | and XDebug |
| [17:27:35] | <mstenta> | and the Devel module |
| [17:32:32] | <kadaan> | I'll try the eap for phpstorm. |
| [17:33:25] | <kadaan> | Is XDebug something I have to install on the server? |
| [17:33:52] | <kadaan> | Guess I can figure it out here: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/phpstorm/2016.2/configuring-xdebug.html |
| [17:34:30] | <kadaan> | My teen daughter's homecoming dance has been changed to tomorrow at 3pm - 6pm... Lame... |
| [17:34:56] | <mstenta> | yea xdebug goes on the server |
| [17:35:08] | <mstenta> | wow - teenagers |
| [17:35:16] | <mstenta> | i've got that to look forward to |
| [17:35:41] | <kadaan> | Yup |
| [17:35:46] | <kadaan> | We have horrible weather right now. |
| [17:36:12] | <kadaan> | And so they rescheduled from tomorrow night to tomorrow afternoon. |
| [17:36:17] | <kadaan> | Kinda lame for a dance. |
| [17:36:49] | <kadaan> | I'll read this too if it is applicable: https://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/PhpStorm/Drupal+Development+usi... |
| [17:37:13] | <mstenta> | yea that is lame |
| [17:37:24] | <mstenta> | yea probably helpful |
| [17:37:36] | <mstenta> | there are some Drupal plugins for PHPStorm, but i've actually never used them |
| [17:37:46] | <mstenta> | when i started Drupal dev, I was just using a text editor |
| [17:37:50] | <mstenta> | so i got used to it there |
| [17:37:56] | <mstenta> | and then started using PHPStorm |
| [17:40:58] | <mstenta> | theres a really nifty thing called Coder http://drupal.org/project/coder |
| [17:41:34] | <mstenta> | it used to be a module, but now it is a php codesniffer plugin |
| [17:41:53] | <mstenta> | it basically scans through the PHP code and identifies places where coding standards need to be fixed |
| [17:42:13] | <mstenta> | that should go in the doc we make too |
| [17:42:26] | <mstenta> | so if you're interested, a really easy way to start making some contributions is in the documentation |
| [17:42:40] | <mstenta> | farmOS.org is all created using a thing called Mkdocs |
| [17:42:49] | <mstenta> | it essentially transforms Markdown files into a static site |
| [17:43:16] | <mstenta> | and it's hosted on github pages |
| [17:43:49] | <mstenta> | so all you do is run "mkdocs gh-deploy" and it automatically compiles them into HTML and CSS, and pushed them to a "gh-pages" branch in the repo, which Github Pages uses to serve the site from |
| [17:44:34] | <mstenta> | maybe i'll start a quick coding standards doc, and you can add to it as we figure out things that should be in there |
| [17:54:14] | * kadaan has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| [18:51:56] | * Kadaan has joined #farmos |
| [19:04:43] | * kadaan_ has joined #farmos |
| [19:22:01] | <kadaan_> | I've used Mkdocs before |
| [19:22:16] | <kadaan_> | That sounds good. |
| [19:22:58] | <kadaan_> | We could setup code sniffer in phpstorm too: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/phpstorm/2016.2/using-php-code-sniffer-to... |
| [19:24:35] | <mstenta> | kadaan_: yea exactly! you can use it directly in phpstorm! |
| [19:24:44] | <mstenta> | and it will point out each line that you need to review |
| [19:24:51] | <mstenta> | double click and it brings you to it |
| [19:24:53] | <mstenta> | so convenient |
| [19:25:00] | <kadaan_> | Nice. If we get the right rules in there, that will really help. |
| [19:25:27] | <mstenta> | well yea... with http://drupal.org/project/coder, all the Drupal coding standards are there |
| [19:25:31] | <mstenta> | and that's all we really need |
| [19:25:48] | <mstenta> | outside of that, i think the only stuff we should define are process oriented |
| [19:26:24] | <mstenta> | for example: the other day i said that i always defer to Features to write code for me whenever possible |
| [19:26:39] | <mstenta> | and avoid making manual changes to that Features-exported code unless absolutely necessary |
| [19:26:47] | <mstenta> | that ensures a level of standardization |
| [19:26:54] | <mstenta> | that's one example |
| [19:27:06] | <mstenta> | in general i try to write as little code as possible |
| [19:27:12] | <mstenta> | the less custom stuff we have, the less we have to maintain |
| [19:27:51] | <mstenta> | stick with the best practices as much as possible, so that everything is easier to read, as long as you are coming at it from the standard practices |
| [19:28:03] | <mstenta> | and comment everything! every line of custom code! |
| [19:28:19] | <mstenta> | even if it's "obvious" what it does... i want to know WHY in a lot of cases |
| [19:28:26] | <mstenta> | the intention is a lot more important than the outcome |
| [19:28:49] | <mstenta> | maybe a lot of this is obvious, and the way you work, so pardon if it's redundant stuff |
| [19:29:11] | <mstenta> | i think it will be important to summarize a lot of these as official rules for farmOS contributions |
| [19:29:42] | <mstenta> | so that everyone has a place to start, and we have something to point to |
| [19:31:15] | <kadaan_> | Those seem like really good guidelines. |
| [19:32:22] | <kadaan_> | That said, I would love to figure out how to bake features into the core of farmOS, so that module developers don't have to produce a ton of code to get exports, imports, time tracking, etc. |
| [19:33:06] | <kadaan_> | If we were in 8.x, allowing module developers to configure their modules with yml and allow the specification of a lot of this would be really powerful. |
| [19:41:06] | <mstenta> | yea, Drupal 8 will be a whole new way of doing a lot of things |
| [19:41:20] | <mstenta> | that's also why i'd like to make sure we don't rush into it TOO quickly |
| [19:41:27] | <mstenta> | although I do want to get there asap |
| [19:41:28] | <mstenta> | haha |
| [19:41:40] | <mstenta> | but i need to learn some things myself too |
| [19:41:50] | <mstenta> | i've only just started playing around with it |
| [19:42:34] | <mstenta> | and yea - i sort of see farmOS as a very thin connective tissue holding a bunch of other non-farmOS pieces together |
| [19:42:41] | <mstenta> | the thinner the layer that is farmOS, the better... |
| [19:42:53] | <mstenta> | in other words, use existing contrib modules wherever possible |
| [19:43:00] | <mstenta> | the less we are maintaining ourselves, the better |
| [19:43:21] | <mstenta> | this is how the Drupal ecosystem works for the most part |
| [19:43:32] | <mstenta> | lots of generalized modules that serve as building blocks |
| [19:43:44] | <mstenta> | and farmOS is just a specific stacking of those blocks |
| [19:43:56] | <mstenta> | plus a FEW custom blocks here and there... but that's what we should try to minimize |
| [19:44:08] | <mstenta> | easier said than done, of course, but i think it's a good rule of thumb |
| [19:45:05] | <mstenta> | so remind me... did you say you do web development as your main job? aside from farming? |
| [19:45:43] | <mstenta> | what languages/ecosystems do you normally work in? you said you're new to php, right? (or am i mixing up conversations with someone else? sorry if so...) |