IRC logs for #farmOS, 2015-10-10 (GMT)

2015-10-09
2015-10-11
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[15:03:09]<mstenta>hello
[15:03:09]<farmBOT>hello
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[16:28:21]<svenn>can other mapping services than google be used?
[16:48:38]<svenn>adding fertilizer to a field, is that an activity or is it an input?
[16:56:07]<mstenta>hi svenn
[16:56:24]<mstenta>right now Google is the only service included - but it's not too difficult to add more
[16:56:30]<mstenta>the Openlayers module is very flexible in that regard
[16:56:44]<mstenta>regarding fertilizer: that would be an input
[17:05:39]<svenn>Ok, and I have issues understanding planting, seed and crop. If I grow barley of type Brage on a field this year, and I grew barley type Tiril last year on the same field, how should I go about registering this?
[17:07:41]<svenn>Reason I ask for different mapping service than google is that the accuracy of the map with kml overlay from my GPS is an offset of more than 10m east.
[17:08:34]<mstenta>in farmOS as "crop" is any variety of a plant - regardless of whether or not you have planted it - think of your crops list as a sort of dictionary of crops you have grown, or will grow perhaps
[17:08:50]<mstenta>"plantings" are specific instances of a crop - ones that are actually alive and will produce a harvest
[17:09:18]<mstenta>and "seedings" are a type of log entry that you can record on plantings
[17:09:55]<svenn>this is what I don't understand. Not native english speaker.
[17:10:08]<mstenta>so for example, you can have a planting called "2015 spring green cabbage", and a crop called "green cabbage"
[17:10:30]<mstenta>and alongside the "2015 spring green cabbage" planting, you can record one or more seedings of that crop
[17:10:50]<mstenta>so for example if you seeded the cabbage on April 15th, 2015 - you would create a log entry for that
[17:11:14]<mstenta>in most cases, you will only create on seeding record per planting - but you can add more if you need to - it's very flexible in that way
[17:11:40]<mstenta>for example if you seeded corn in a field, but it didn't germinate well, you could make a second seeding and record both separately with the same planting
[17:12:01]<mstenta>to take a step back: farmOS basically uses three different type of data...
[17:12:04]<mstenta>1) assets
[17:12:05]<mstenta>2) logs
[17:12:12]<mstenta>3) taxonomies
[17:12:36]<mstenta>"crops" are a taxonomy - so you can use it to make a database of different crop types
[17:12:53]<mstenta>"plantings" are an asset - because they are a real thing you own out in the field, or in the greenhouse
[17:13:06]<mstenta>"seedings" are a type of log that is associated with planting assets
[17:13:34]<mstenta>"activities", "inputs", "harvests" are other types of logs
[17:13:43]<mstenta>does that clarify at all? :-)
[17:14:02]<svenn>so the planting is the act of putting something in the soil?
[17:14:28]<mstenta>sort of ... the "planting" is used to represent the entire concept of "this season's spring cabbage"
[17:14:42]<mstenta> but a "seeding" log is actually a record of the act of planting seeds
[17:15:14]<mstenta>because you might have more than one seeding per planting - which can be a little confusing - but is very useful
[17:15:24]<mstenta>and you will have more than one planting per crop
[17:15:31]<mstenta>crop > planting > seeding
[17:15:53]<mstenta>the reason we have "plantings" is so you can record different kinds of events for it
[17:16:03]<svenn>crop, is that the whole harvest in the autumn season?
[17:16:14]<svenn>as example
[17:16:24]<mstenta>for example, you might also want to record that you weeded your cabbage - that would be an "activity" log attached to the planting
[17:16:57]<mstenta>"crops" are basically just "planting types" or "planting species/varieties" might be a better name for them
[17:17:02]<svenn>fertilizing is also an activity, but actually an input. I am confused
[17:17:30]<mstenta>yes - i agree - the "input vs activity" is confusing - and it's something i am giving thought to changing
[17:17:47]<mstenta>basically, input is more specific than activity
[17:18:01]<mstenta>it has more fields on it for recording things that are specific to inputs
[17:18:21]<svenn>I know you have to be very general to cover a lot of different agriculture work, and that is confusing me as I am not very good in the english dictionary for these kind of words
[17:18:27]<mstenta>try adding an activity, and then try adding an input - you will see what i mean by different fields
[17:19:05]<mstenta>svenn: yea, it's true - flexibility is key - but i do want to make sure that it's not too confusing - so it helps to discuss with non-english speakers so that i can improve! :-)
[17:19:47]<mstenta>does it make more sense if instead of "crops" i call them "varieties" or "species" perhaps?
[17:20:42]<mstenta>"crops" are meant to be a database of different plants that you grow
[17:20:44]<svenn>I don't know.
[17:20:55]<mstenta>and then you create a planting of a crop
[17:21:09]<mstenta>so step 1 is create a crop called "green cabbage"
[17:21:53]<mstenta>and step 2 is to create a planting called "spring 2015 green cabbage in lower field" or something like that - plantings are specific things that are currently growing - crops are more of the "idea" of a type of plant
[17:22:04]<svenn>ok, so far I thought crop was related to grain-like plants like barley, oats, wheat etc.
[17:22:18]<mstenta>oh - no... it just means "type of planting"
[17:22:32]<mstenta>so that should probably be changed - i see why it's confusing
[17:22:44]<svenn>right. Got to get the definitions right.
[17:22:53]<mstenta>yes :-) wording is important
[17:23:08]<mstenta>how about "plant species"
[17:23:26]<mstenta>or "plant variety"
[17:23:38]<mstenta>(because species have multiple varieties)
[17:23:41]<svenn>I know. I told my relatives I grow corn in Norway. They thought I grew cornflakes and I meant barley
[17:23:56]<mstenta>haha
[17:24:05]<mstenta>i wish i could grow cornflakes
[17:24:15]<mstenta>:-)
[17:25:23]<svenn>Why would the planting be called 2015 green cabbage in lower field when I put a date in the date field and the name of the area in the area field? Redundant info
[17:26:35]<mstenta>well, you can name your plantings whatever you want
[17:26:48]<mstenta>you're right - it is redundant info - so you don't have to have such a long name
[17:27:04]<mstenta>whatever is easiest so that you can tell them apart when you are looking at them in lists later on
[17:27:19]<mstenta>because you might have 10 different cabbage plantings
[17:28:12]<mstenta>you could just say "2015 green cabbage 1", "2015 green cabbage 2", etc
[17:28:33]<mstenta>the 2015 is optional too, of course - i just like to use that method myself
[17:28:55]<svenn>I am experimenting with various titles on my plantings, now that I have got a bit better understanding of the concepts of planting, seed and crop
[17:29:43]<mstenta>good! i'm curious what you decide upon
[17:29:57]<mstenta>i am thinking about adding a section to farmos.org that has suggestions for certain ways of naming things
[17:30:08]<svenn>I have to put in some data from this year and from last year and maybe even older if I can find my logs.
[17:30:24]<mstenta>that's the fun part :-)
[17:30:40]<mstenta>it's nice to see it fill up with old data - and then it's all at your fingertips
[17:31:39]<mstenta>i created a feature request to rename "Crop" to "Plant Variety" - https://www.drupal.org/node/2586841
[17:31:44]<svenn>I think the real fun will be to see how yield of a field changes when adding CaO
[17:32:10]<mstenta>yes! keeping records of different inputs and observing the results is always exciting!
[17:32:53]<svenn>And we need to have journals of fertilizing and pesticides we use
[17:33:18]<mstenta>ah yes
[17:33:28]<mstenta>so i would recommend "input" logs for all of those
[17:33:33]<svenn>we also need to have an evaluation of alternative ways to remove weeds
[17:33:46]<svenn>before we use the chemicals
[17:33:54]<svenn>new rule from this year
[17:34:02]<mstenta>ok interesting - does that apply to all farms?
[17:34:12]<mstenta>i am not familiar with laws in Norway
[17:34:29]<svenn>We even have to track such things as sun condition, wind and temperature
[17:34:43]<mstenta>in US, if you are an "organic" farm you need to show that you have tried to buy all organic seeds, for example
[17:34:50]<svenn>and also if useful bees are flying
[17:35:09]<mstenta>oh! i am going to build a bee management module next spring i think
[17:35:18]<mstenta>because i am going to set up some beehives myself
[17:35:48]<mstenta>regarding sun condition, wind, temperature, etc - i am also working on some interesting things in the farm_sensor module
[17:35:55]<svenn>well, I am not into bees, but when using chemicals, I have to show that I have considered saving them from my chemicals
[17:36:05]<mstenta>it will eventually be able to record data from sensors, and display it in graphs in farmOS
[17:36:28]<mstenta>oh ok that makes sense
[17:36:57]<svenn>I have had a simple usb weather station up for 5 years now. I can't use the data for anything useful.
[17:37:00]<svenn>yet
[17:37:04]<mstenta>with farmOS you can take a picture of the bees and attach it to an "observation" log - and link that log to plantings so you can show that there are bees active
[17:37:37]<svenn>Have you heard about Cybertracker?
[17:37:42]<mstenta>no
[17:38:15]<svenn>It is a very flexible ranger observation system. Almost open source cybertracker.org
[17:38:43]<svenn>build your own observation app for android with gps input and icons to push for people who cannot read and write
[17:39:07]<mstenta>nice!
[17:39:28]<svenn>I used it two years ago to track observations of three kinds of weeds from my combine to make a map of areas I should use Roundup on
[17:39:42]<mstenta>interesting
[17:39:49]<svenn>You can't see any weeds after the harvest
[17:40:08]<svenn>but they will be there next year
[17:40:25]<mstenta>i must go... time for dinner
[17:40:30]<mstenta>it was nice talking with you svenn!
[17:40:42]<svenn>Time for bed here. Nice to talk to you
[17:40:47]<mstenta>good luck with farmOS! and i'll be in this chat if you have other questions
[17:40:47]<svenn>and thanks for the help
[17:40:55]<mstenta>you're welcome
[17:40:57]<mstenta>goodnight!
[17:41:03]<svenn>see you